WEBVTT 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:16.000 Good morning, or afternoon, depending on where you are. 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:46.000 Morning. 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:53.000 Last time… 00:02:53.000 --> 00:03:02.000 I believe we were talking about actual cost. 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:07.000 Okay, so… 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:25.000 Let's share my screen… 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:32.000 Chad and everything disappears. 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:39.000 It's like, no, you really don't want your chat up there, you don't really want the… you don't want the transcript up there. You just think you do. 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:42.000 So we're just going to go ahead and get those. I love Zoom. 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:49.000 Um, actually, I love it when technology decides to make a decision for you without asking, because… yeah. 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:51.000 we're all too dumb to make our own decisions. 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:56.000 Yeah, it moves it all the way off to the side. Like, for me, it moves it to my whole other computer. I'm like, 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:59.000 What is it… where did all my controls go? 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:07.000 Exactly. My Mac does that to me all the time, like, if I get a notification on my main window in a Slack message, I have my… 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:12.000 I have 3 monitors, and I have my desktops lined up in this very specific order. 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:14.000 And if you click on one of those, it will… 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:19.000 grab that desktop and move it to wherever the active one is, and swap them. 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:35.000 I was just like, no, just move to that desktop. You don't need to actually physically reorganize them. It just… it drives me nuts. It really does. Especially when you're working on a single screen, and, like, you have things laid out on a particular order, and all of a sudden you swipe left. 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:40.000 And you have Slack instead of the spreadsheet I was working on. 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:42.000 Nope. 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:45.000 Oh, stop it. 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:50.000 Um, okay. So, uh, oops, why is that not working? That was weird. 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:54.000 Um, last time we were talking about claims returned, 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:58.000 Um, and just a slight reminder, and… 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:00.000 switching claims returned, 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:07.000 that instead of using the current method that's used now, it's possibly using the, um… 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:09.000 The… 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:13.000 transfer accounts, uh, to hold those. Uh, so we're talking about that. 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:19.000 Um, this… today, I would like to kind of start talking about… 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:28.000 open credits. And I know that, uh, the people that were in discussions with Holly, we were talking about this as well with her, 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:35.000 Um, and for probably everybody on this call, you're probably aware of that when an item is returned, 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:41.000 the refund and the credit are… I'm sorry, the credit and the refund are both processed at the same exact time. 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:47.000 So, the account is credited, which puts it in then a negative balance, and then the refund is issued. 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:52.000 Uh, that's a problem for people who have actually paid something on the account. 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:55.000 And that's where the refunds to process manually report. 00:05:55.000 --> 00:06:03.000 comes from. This is also an issue with, uh, merger transfer and other transfer accounts, because it's not stuck in that limbo state, it's just automatically closed out of the system. 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:09.000 Uh, so there is an open ticket that was originally written by Holly to break those into two separate instances. 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:15.000 Um, we can discuss that a little bit more if people would like. What I was interested in is the… 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:20.000 was partially that, but also the interface for handling open credits. 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:25.000 Um, again, this is based on the same 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:30.000 interface principles as the other two, uh, where there is a… 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:34.000 drop down to select what action you want to perform. 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:42.000 search and filter options, and then the open credits that are currently in the system. 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:47.000 the idea behind this, like with the other interfaces, is that it would allow you to… 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:49.000 coordinate all for… 00:06:49.000 --> 00:07:06.000 chunk off pieces of the Find system to specific users. So, for instance, somebody in your business services account who is responsible for cutting checks could only have… would have access to this, and you possibly could limit that they don't even know what the instance title is, just that so-and-so needs a check cut for something. 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:08.000 Um, 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:13.000 So that's kind of the idea behind this interface. I was kind of wondering what… 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:20.000 people thought of that idea and approach, first off, and then we can probably get into some more of the details of 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:29.000 what can be done with open credits? 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:33.000 I like the idea of having them… 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:35.000 be able to pull them up 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:40.000 right, kind of on demand. Like, right now, we have to… 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:45.000 export every single cash transaction and siphon out the… 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:49.000 negative balances to find the ones that were credited, and… 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:59.000 Um, and it's a huge pain in the butt right now. So, I could imagine a workflow where you're processing credits, 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:04.000 And I guess the question is, like, where do they go if you do the transfer? 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:08.000 Um, if you're doing them one by one and, and… 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:10.000 transferring them. 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:15.000 where… kind of, where does that go? I guess, right now, nothing gets… 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:20.000 Like, you can transfer an individual transaction, so I guess that would be the same… 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:26.000 process. Um, we don't use transfer right now, so it's sort of a little bit opaque. 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:28.000 to me, how… 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:31.000 how it would work. I know how it worked in Olive, 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:36.000 And… that is sort of the… 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:38.000 There's a distinction 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:41.000 For our workflow, 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:47.000 whether or not something's been reported or transferred. Like, if we haven't told the bursar about it, 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:51.000 I don't need to know about the credit. It just goes away, right? So that's… 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:57.000 that's sort of what I'm thinking is, like, these credits… 00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:00.000 Would they only appear… 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:02.000 if they didn't… 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:05.000 cancel something out, like, that's the… I guess that… 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:08.000 is the piece that I'm not sure what that workflow looks like. 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:18.000 I think that's something we'd have to kind of… something to kind of think through, too. You're right, like, if it's moved to a transfer account, and I kind of want to keep… 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:23.000 the idea of transfer accounts as a bubble, and not just specifically… 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:31.000 Um, uh, bursar, because they are used for… if we do use them for the claims returned, 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:36.000 Um, or we use them for bursa transfers, or they're used for, 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:39.000 outside collections, or who knows what. 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:41.000 Um… 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:45.000 I think when an item is returned, 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:52.000 the credit needs to go onto that transfer account. Right now, what it's kind of doing is… 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:55.000 It's moving it out of the transfer account. 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:58.000 crediting it, and then refunding it. 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:03.000 So it's treating it like it's an active fee fine on the person's account. 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:07.000 I guess my… and please, please… 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:15.000 Anybody say, no, this doesn't sound good. I think with my mindset is that the credit should be placed on that transfer account, 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:21.000 And then whatever process is acting on that transfer account, then 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:26.000 does the refund. So, for instance, if it's a… if it's… if you're trans… if it's a… 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:28.000 external system. 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:31.000 it's a cue to say, 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:34.000 I need you to transfer this credit to the external system. 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:42.000 And then maybe there's a setting on the transfer account that says automatically close out any credits. So it just closes it out as a refund. 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:52.000 I feel that that kind of has to be handled separately from the regular accounts. Does all that babbling make sense to people? 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:56.000 Sorry. 00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:04.000 I guess we need to develop a system for folks who are not using transfer accounts at all, right? Like, it has to be a system that will… 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:09.000 that makes sense regardless of your workflow. 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:11.000 Um, and… 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:14.000 for me, like, if we haven't transferred it, 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:16.000 I don't want to see it, like… 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:22.000 Like, you know what I mean? Like, if it hasn't… if nothing's happened with the debit, 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:25.000 And the credit cancels it out. 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:27.000 I don't necessarily… 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:29.000 We don't care. 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:30.000 Agreed, agreed. 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:31.000 Need to see it, right? Like, I wouldn't need to see it on this open credits, because it's not… 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:39.000 From my mind, it's not an open credit, it's been canceled, and… it's canceled, truly canceled, as opposed to… 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:42.000 A credit needs to be issued. 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:46.000 Agreed on both points. I think transfer accounts and, uh… 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:53.000 in my mind, transfer accounts in the quote-unquote active account, or the main account that's used in folio, I think should be treated exactly the same. 00:11:53.000 --> 00:12:02.000 So, the difference with the two is that, I guess, in a way, you assume that if it's in a transfer account, it's already been paid. 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:04.000 So you have to issue a credit, and then… 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:13.000 When it's transferred or closed in that account, then you're issuing, basically, the refund on the external account, possibly. 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:17.000 for the quote-unquote main active account, I agree 100% as well. 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:20.000 If there is a credit issued, 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:24.000 And it's… it hasn't been paid. So, like, somebody… 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:31.000 Um, somebody checks out a book, it's Age to Loss, they're fined $150, they return the item, 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:38.000 they get a credit for $150, and there's now zero balance on their account. 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:48.000 that should show up in this screen. It's only if they paid, let's say, $50 towards it, then that $50 should show up here. Uh, yes, David? 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:56.000 I guess I'm a little bit confused about why we're even talking about introducing credits into something that hasn't been paid. 00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:12.000 Because as of now, if you are billed and you return the item, there isn't a credit. The bill is waived because of an action where the item has been returned. So there would never be a circumstance unless you completely rip out. 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:21.000 And change how fees and fines work, which just… this seems overcomplicated. To me, a credit is something that is only issued when you have paid for something. 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:36.000 Somebody lost the book. They paid $150. They return the book, and if your rules let them get a credit, then the credit is issued. You would never issue a credit. 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:47.000 If the thing hasn't been paid, and that would work for your transfer account Lydia as well, presumably, because if the thing has been transferred. 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:48.000 Right. 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:59.000 Then that is essentially a form of payment, right? The existing bill has been closed. But I'm really nervous about the idea of fundamentally changing how the thing that we do. 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:17.000 Dozens of times a day, because the only way we get books back is when we bill people for them, and then they finally return them. And also, when they get renewed, and all these other things, that would be just… adding a huge layer of complexity to a process that already works. It… 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:26.000 No, no, no, no, that makes sense, that makes sense. So, yeah, I was… I was thinking of trying to keep consistency between the transfer accounts and the primary account. 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:27.000 But I see what you're saying, too, is, like, 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:31.000 So that's where I'm just kind of confused. 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:37.000 being transferred out is basically being paid, in a sense. It's a form of payment. 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:39.000 So, it… 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:43.000 Yeah, so not having that consistency would make sense in that point in time. 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:49.000 That makes perfect sense. So then, in that case, yes, something's returned, if there's no payments to it. 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:58.000 it's waived. But if something's returned and there was a payment towards it in any amount, that payment is then credit to 00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:59.000 that person's active account. 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:04.000 That's right. And I think that would be true of any transfer or a payment. 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:10.000 Right? If it's been reported to someone else, or if it's someone else's responsibility now, and it's already been 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:17.000 transferred, or the person paid it, then the credit would come into play. I totally agree, David, you're right, that clarifies it. 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:18.000 Okay. 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.000 That's exactly how I expect it to work. 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:29.000 Okay, then we can… we can keep that workflow, that makes sense. Um, and you're right, it would be a deviation from the way it's currently, uh, running. 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:31.000 Um, so yeah, we could do it that way. Now… 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:38.000 I do note with some of the original discussions, and right now I just have the open one up here, 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:45.000 is… open credits, is… with some of the discussions with Holly, there was the idea of 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:50.000 applying the credit from one… 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:58.000 fee-fine account to another, or multiple FeeFine accounts on a single-user. 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:00.000 Is that still something… 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:06.000 people are interested in, or is that kind of seem like it's… 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.000 too much, or would you all liked to have? 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:15.000 I know, David, you were really heavy in those discussions with Holly when we were talking about that as well. 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:18.000 Remind me… remind me what this was. I've lost track. 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:31.000 It's okay. Um, it's basically what would happen is, in the scenario I said before, let's say somebody had a… checked out a book at age to loss, they got a bill for $150, they paid it, then returned the item, they would have a $150 credit on their account. 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:35.000 One of the workflows that Holly set up 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:40.000 And we discussed was being able to take that $150 credit 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:43.000 and use it as, quote-unquote, a payment towards other open… 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:45.000 Right. 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:54.000 fee fines on the person's account. Um, I know we've discussed, like, do we… does it pick the largest one, the oldest one, or can we manually do it? 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:58.000 Um, I was just kind of curious if that functionality was still… 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:05.000 needed slash wanted, and kind of what the priority around that sort of functionality would be. 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:14.000 So I would be interested to hear what others think about this. This came out of, in part the fact that this was functionality that existed. 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:38.000 in Olay. And I will say it is not… trivial to… Figure out the logic of that, and part of that is because, like, you need to be able to… If you're trying to do anything where it's, like, automated, you have to take into account things like you do not want to get trapped in an endless loop of… 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:51.000 They paid for this lost item, but they still have this other lost item, and I have now issued them a credit and paid for that lost item, and that's closed that loan, but they were talking to us about that item, and. 00:17:51.000 --> 00:18:01.000 You know, so I would be interested to hear what other people think about this. I think from Chicago's perspective, we've eliminated a lot of our overdue fines. 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:06.000 Um, since that functionality existed in Olay, so this just comes up. 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:27.000 less often, and we've certainly lived without it for… Four years, so… I'm interested to hear what others have to say. I might. I might argue if I were if I if we were to prioritize this feature at all, I would almost argue that you should have to just select which bills you want to pay and not let the system. 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:33.000 Uh, tried to do it automatically, because I think that's… 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:34.000 I have a few thoughts, too, but I'd like to hear what other people think. 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:39.000 Also. 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:42.000 We don't have any… 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:47.000 use for that functionality. I mean, we… we just report it to the controller, and they… 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:49.000 like, we're… 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:58.000 we don't care what… we don't have any overdue fines, so… I agree with David in terms of the complexity of it. Like, I can't… 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:04.000 really imagine… I just want credits to work. Like, I can't really imagine how this whole thing 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:08.000 is gonna get… can get developed. I'm not a developer, but, like, I think… 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.000 It sounds very, very complex. 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:14.000 And we're doing so much less billing. 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:17.000 Um, and trying to make it as simple as possible, so… 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:23.000 I mean, if other folks want it, that's totally fine, but it's not something we… 00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:34.000 Right. And I think Cornell kind of falls in the same boat. I could also see a manual workaround for this, is that you have a payment type 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:42.000 of system credit, and you just manually process everything, it's a lot more work for staff. 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:47.000 But I could see you doing that process manually. 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:52.000 Um, I agree if this is a route that… 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:58.000 others outside of this meeting say, yes, we would like to have some way of applying these credits to other accounts. 00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:09.000 Um, I think it should be a completely… it should be a manual process, it should not be an automated process, where you select what accounts you want to apply to, 00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:13.000 And it applies it to that account. Yes, David? 00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:21.000 I was just gonna say, I mean, this is part of the I mean, part of the reason this this was one of the underlying reasons of saying like. 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:29.000 Issue the credit. I mean, the other is the transfer accounts, but issue the credit, and then the refund is a separate thing, was the idea that you could stop and say. 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:40.000 I am gonna… I don't think the… I think it can't be totally manual, because I think from an accounting perspective, you would need to be able to say, we used this credit to pay for this. 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:46.000 Like, we use this, and I don't even think it was across accounts. I think the idea was across fees on an account. 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:47.000 Yes, yes. 00:20:47.000 --> 00:21:06.000 right? So… But even there, like, you need to be able, on both bills, you need to say, this credit, we issued $100, we used $100 of this credit to pay these five bills with their UUIDs, or the HRID. And on those bills, it would need to say these were paid with a credit from. 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:19.000 This other bill. And then there were. And then there's $50 in credit remaining, and then you manually say, and now I have refunded this. 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:20.000 Right, right. 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:24.000 That is what a financial system should be capable of doing. I think manually selecting which bills you do is probably the easiest way to do that. 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:33.000 But it would be very low priority compared to other… needs at Chicago. So yeah, I just want to hear if others just, you know. 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:36.000 would need this more readily. 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:50.000 and for our libraries, I can't speak for most things. I don't know how many are we doing this, but I would see a concern that for an Ecs environment, someone want to do this, someone to process manually, someone do not entirely other means. 00:21:50.000 --> 00:22:09.000 And more than a few libraries that look at only specifically just that one transaction, refunding or crediting it, as opposed to reciting or funding a balance. And that might cause problems with the bursar's office, because they want to look at specific refunds for particular transactions, as opposed to a running balance of some kind. 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:13.000 That makes sense. 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:17.000 I can rework the ticket slightly around that, um… 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:22.000 and throw in a few ideas. The other… 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:30.000 The other thing that came up in a side conversation, um, outside of this was the need to 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.000 have… 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:38.000 expiration dates on a credit. 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:45.000 Uh, and this primarily came up when I was talking to Joseph from the policies around the public libraries that… 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:49.000 they are only allowed to hold onto credit. 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:55.000 Please do not quote me 100% on the timeframe, but I believe it's, like, one year. 00:22:55.000 --> 00:23:01.000 After a year, that money is absorbed by the institution, and they're no longer allowed to refund it. 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:03.000 is that… 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:09.000 functionality that other libraries have, either a specific date range, 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:13.000 For a specific day, i.e. 00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:14.000 Do your institutions? Would your institution say, at the close of fiscal year, July 1st? We are no longer allowed to issue any outstanding credits if they have not been processed. 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:27.000 we would need here. 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:33.000 We do, for our graduating seniors, like, we have a… 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:38.000 We clear their loans after that period of time, so we have a workaround, but… 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:41.000 for alumni, we only give them… 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:46.000 one fiscal year past their graduation to return books. 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:49.000 And then they're not eligible. 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:50.000 So it's… 00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:56.000 You can sort of come up with some of it on the… I guess you can't really do it on the fee-fine policy, because… 00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:00.000 It's sort of a fixed date, as opposed to a rolling… 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.000 like, 365 days past… 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:05.000 aged to lost, or whatever. 00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:08.000 So we do have that, we work around it by… 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:20.000 getting those books off their accounts before… 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:31.000 Yeah, I mean, ours is a poly… is a library policy, not… and externally imposed rule or law, so we can always make exceptions. 00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:40.000 But our general… Our policy is it's… it's… 365 days after you pay for the thing. 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:49.000 Um, like, if you find the item and return it. But since everything is manual, and frankly, like, they would have to bring it to our attention. 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:56.000 Right now there's not even really a workaround, right? Because there's nothing, right? Like we have to. 00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:06.000 like talk to our budget office to have a check cut for somebody. And so it's easy to catch, and it's pretty. 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:19.000 I will freely admit, I don't know what our policies are, and I probably should, because I do the Bursar transfer. Basically, our bursar's office has an internal policy when they cannot 00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:23.000 when they can no longer refund money. 00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:25.000 I have not hit that yet. 00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:29.000 Um, but to be fair, 90% of the time, 00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:36.000 we don't get returns after somebody has graduated, because if they have an outstanding births or account, they have to pay everything off, and… 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:39.000 they're more apt to return items that they have. 00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:45.000 Otherwise, if they don't pay off their bursar account, they don't get their diploma, so… or their transcripts, so they really want to get that paid off. 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:48.000 Um, so we'll get a bunch of people returning stuff. 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:53.000 Faculty and staff are a little bit different, because we don't have an external collection agency for them anymore. 00:25:53.000 --> 00:26:04.000 Um, I believe if a faculty or staff member returns something, that goes to our business services office, they may have a one-year kind of limit on it. 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:09.000 But it does sound like this will be used by other institutions, and so it would… 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.000 Would you… 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:21.000 more apt to have a… it sounds like it's also more that you would have a specific time frame. Like, it's 365 days, or 2 weeks, or 6 months. 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:23.000 From the time the credit was issued. 00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:30.000 to when they can collect it. And not a set date. Does that sound… 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:41.000 Correct. 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:42.000 Sorry. 00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:46.000 Probably… I also wonder, and again, this is getting into… I mean, this is… I'm… you're giving me PTSD flashbacks of the fee fine conversations in LA, but, like. 00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:58.000 Um… For that kind of thing, should the credit continue to be open, or should there be a mechanism that essentially. 00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:10.000 closes, like, resolves the credit, not as a refund, but as a… There is no credit anymore, because the credit has reached the time frame at which point. 00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:18.000 Right? Like, you wouldn't want to be opening the person's account and see a $150 credit. 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:24.000 Correct. Right. 00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:25.000 Yeah. 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:40.000 in perpetuity. Um, again, yeah, like, we do have a credit agency, but again, it's like… We want the book back. So we're not going after people who… I mean, if they've already paid, no one's going to get tracked down because it's resolved. It's the people who still have our stuff, and then. 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:43.000 Right. 00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:44.000 Agreed. Um, I think to stick to… 00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:48.000 That's all moot anyway. Right? Like. Um… 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:50.000 Um… 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:52.000 Sorry. Oh, okay. 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.000 That was not what I meant. 00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:59.000 Oh, that's okay. Um… 00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:07.000 I think to stick to… I want to try anything that we do from here, moving out, is to try to ensure 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:11.000 that the fee-find records stick to… 00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:16.000 at least some resemblance of an actual accounting record. 00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:23.000 And from my very… my one year, which was a half year, which ended up being a half-year college course in accounting, 00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:29.000 I do remember there is a specific way that you can write, uh, open… 00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:34.000 are right off open accounts where money is owed to an outside organization. 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:41.000 Um, because I remember the example coming up was gift cards. Like, gift cards are good for 365 days, how do you write this off? 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:45.000 And the account was closed using a specific, um… 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:51.000 terminology… use specific terminology. I think that's where we would have to go with this as well. 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:57.000 Is there any… if we do decide to go down this route where credits can only be held by… for a specific time frame, 00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:00.000 once it hits that time frame, an automated process would 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:02.000 close the credit. 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:06.000 with something, I'm just gonna throw a term out, like, um… 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:09.000 credit absorbed by institution. 00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:12.000 Or something of that nature. Yes, David? 00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:22.000 No, that makes sense. I was just making sure that we're not… Always assuming that there is an outside entity, because we don't all have outside entities. Some of us don't thank God, have to deal with bursar transfers. 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:23.000 Well, in the case of… 00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:27.000 All of these conversations just make me so glad that we don't do that. 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:33.000 Well, while I'm staying outside entity, I'm thinking more of, um… 00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:44.000 it's an account payable to somebody else, so in this case, the outside entity would be actually the user. So the money is owed to the user, they don't collect it, or they don't get it within a year, 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:52.000 So therefore, it's absorbed by the institution as additional profit. And I always hated that, because then you have to add it to another line item somewhere else as 00:29:52.000 --> 00:30:00.000 some sort of weird profit, and then it throws off the balance sheet, and I was always off by 5 cents, and it drove me nuts. 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:07.000 Anyways, we weren't allowed to use accounting software or spreadsheets either. We had to do everything manually, which was evil. 00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:13.000 Of course, I went to school back in there. This was back in high school, back in the Dark Ages when I did that. 00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:15.000 Um… 00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:27.000 I mean, theoretically, if you have a offices taking care of this, my guess is that these would be closed out anyways before that one year, because you'd be just writing checks and sending them out. 00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:30.000 on a regular basis, but… 00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:37.000 Uh, let's see, what else is there around credits? Is there any other… 00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:43.000 Concerns, workflows are questions people have around… 00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:50.000 credits and refunds to patrons. 00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:52.000 I'm trying to think of any other… 00:30:52.000 --> 00:31:03.000 deviations in this and that. 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:05.000 Again, David. 00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:18.000 I mean, the only thing that I can think of with all of this is, like, is just the… the hill I always die on for everything, which is, like, you need to have someone with the right level of permissions to like override or reverse. 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:34.000 Any kind of automated action. So, like, if you do have something where, like, a credit is getting closed out after a year, and then you have the right person complain about a thing. You need some way of being able to go back and account for now, we actually are going to issue that refund after all, even though it's. 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:45.000 Day 366. You could do that as a just a manual process. But like right now you can create a manual fee. But you obviously can't create a manual. 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:56.000 Credit. So, just whatever… You know, just keeping all that in mind so that you don't end up in any kind of system where. 00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:08.000 This is the… this is the rule, and no one, no matter what god-like powers they have been granted by the library, uh, can reverse it, because it's just baked in. 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:12.000 That's a good point. 00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:21.000 Um, and Scott, since you're in an ECS environment, I've… and actually also… no, five colleges, you're not in ECS, correct? 00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:24.000 Or are you in UCS? 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:34.000 Um, do you think that any of these credits or refunds will be processed centrally, or would they be taken care of by the individual 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:35.000 data tenants. 00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:36.000 That's correct. We're ECS, yes. 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:43.000 individual day attendance. They all function separately, and they all have everything going through either bursar or the library directly. 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:51.000 That makes life a lot easier. Thanks. 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:57.000 Yeah, I know. I mean, I have heard that… 00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:04.000 some ECS… or potential UCS environments were interested in central FEFIN processing. 00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:10.000 Which could work… possibly work, but I think it would be very tricky, um… 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:13.000 But yeah, okie dokie. What else was there? 00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:23.000 Um… so, as I said, the two interfaces I had here, I had one which was a unlocked one, which had the instance title and had access to 00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:28.000 the loan details, and then a locked one, which would be one that… 00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:32.000 would not have access to the loan data, and it would just show 00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:40.000 the actual credit information. From there, they could, say, transfer or refund the credit, and in this case, transfer credit is paying them. 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:46.000 another account with it. Um… 00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:49.000 Well, if there's no other questions with that. 00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:58.000 We can move on to another one, which… there's a setting in fees and fines, but has never been used. It is another interface for replacement with comping. 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:00.000 Um… 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:09.000 I know that we have, in the Define settings, that if you do a… that there is an option that if you say something is replacing with a copy, 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:13.000 that it allows you to charge a processing fee. 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:17.000 Um, I was extending on that, and actually making a replacement with coffee, 00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:26.000 interface, and allowing… again, this was kind of like the credit interface where you could potentially… well, not actually, we mean, never mind. 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:30.000 I strike that. You would need to know what the, um… 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:35.000 loan information is, but you might not actually need to know what the fee fine information is. 00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:37.000 Um… 00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:56.000 My question is, I guess, is how many people are allowing replacement copies, and who normally takes care of that? Is that your billing coordinator, or is it somebody in LTS? 00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:57.000 Yes, David. 00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:06.000 So, for us, it's circulation staff in consultation. If it's not clear. I mean, we have sort of guidelines. 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:10.000 We're basically like, oh, does the ISBN match? Then yes. 00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:18.000 Uh, unless the condition is not good, or… but if it's, like, not an exact match, then we reach out to the selectors for. 00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:28.000 uh, approval, and… I mean the payment type that is, we're paying for this with a replacement copy has worked fine. 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:36.000 For us, I don't know how much… We would need a separate… 00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:42.000 Okay. What about everybody else who's doing replacement copies? How are you kind of handling it now? 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:44.000 And do you think this is kind of… 00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:45.000 overkill. 00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:50.000 that date. 00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:55.000 Ours is similar to David's. I mean, we do accept them, but it's pretty… 00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:57.000 casual and… 00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:02.000 Um, if we accept it, we just waive the replacement 00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:04.000 Well, let's see, what do we do? 00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:13.000 I think we usually… we would check it in, maybe, and mark… and then charge them only… because we don't want the thing on their account, right? We want the loan off. 00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:18.000 But, um, then we would charge them just the processing fee. 00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:22.000 It's a little bit… fudgy. 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:27.000 But it does work. 00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:28.000 Oh… 00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:30.000 Now, we just really… we just created a FETA, a payment type. There's cash, credit card replacement copy. 00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:31.000 Oh, interesting. 00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:36.000 And then you just pay the fee… with the replacement copy. 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:41.000 payment type. Just made it easy for ourselves. 00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:42.000 Does that… 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:43.000 So does that mean… what happens to the loan? I guess it becomes lost and paid. 00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:48.000 Um… 00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:51.000 becomes lost and paid, which closes the loan and takes it off the patron's account. 00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:54.000 Yeah, do you pay it with the whole… 00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:57.000 Do you pay the whole amount? 00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:00.000 Or do you… do you… you don't charge a processing fee? 00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:01.000 Yeah. We honestly don't… 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:02.000 Yeah. We don't charge a processing fee. In fact, one of. 00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:06.000 We say we do, but we often don't. 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:16.000 Our processing fee had gotten so ridiculously high that I think it was at… I'm sure it was actually disincentivizing people. 00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:24.000 To bring in replacement copies, which is what we actually wanted. Um, and instead they were like. 00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:37.000 fighting and claiming to have returned things that they clearly lost, because it was like, oh, you can get this for $10 on Amazon, but we are charging you $35. 00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:48.000 As a processing fee for the privilege of giving it to us, and I… convince the higher powers to eliminate it, and it has, I think. 00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:59.000 getting more replacement copies. So yeah, we just. But you can also, like, do that in folio by having a separate processing fee that is charged at the moment of aging or being. 00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:06.000 builders lost, because that's the other thing, is sometimes somebody loses something, and it has an age lost in the system, so you just have to bill it. 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:10.000 You have to declare it lost to create the bill, and then you close it out. 00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:20.000 Um, so if you just… if you just keep those two bills separate, then you don't have to worry about doing partials and things like that. 00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:21.000 That's why I just, yeah, the… just creating the replacement copy. 00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:34.000 So is that… 00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:54.000 Do you run into any issues with… Somebody's… somebody has something that ages to loss. They give you a replacement copy, so then you pay that fee fine as, uh, fully paid with the replacement copy, and then later return the original item. 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:58.000 I mean, it depends on what you mean by a problem. 00:38:58.000 --> 00:38:59.000 Or do you see that as a problem? 00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:05.000 The system… right, the I don't… I don't see it as a problem. The system is not going to flag. 00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:16.000 I mean, I guess the system would say, hey, this thing is lost and paid. So if you're trying to return it, and that would let somebody that would let a staff member. 00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:17.000 Right. 00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:36.000 look into it. which is fine. I consider it honestly, the patron's responsibility if they lost something, paid for it and they and and then… found it to tell us if there's something we need to do for them. I don't. I don't feel like I need the system to be telling me. 00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:42.000 Oh, hey, this is… was paid, or this had a replacement copy, or this had this other thing. It happens, frankly, so rarely. 00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:53.000 that it's easy enough to tell within the bill history like what the situation is. And then we have a separate policy that I didn't copy over where it's like if you. 00:39:53.000 --> 00:40:00.000 You know, provided a replacement copy, and you find the book within a year, we'll give you, like. 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.000 whichever copy we decide. Um, right? Like, well, like, if you find the original. 00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:08.000 I like that. 00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:15.000 like, 6 months later, then we'll look at the two and decide which one we're going to give you. 00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:16.000 Okay. 00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:26.000 back. Um… For whatever reason. It's the same reason we have a policy that is never used where we're like, it's $150 lost item fee. We reserve the right to raise that. 00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:31.000 Um, if you lost something that was, like, you know, worth 2 grand or something. 00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:48.000 Yeah, we do the same thing specifically for textbooks, because a lot of the textbooks are four or five hundred bucks, and they take it out, and they actually get a deal at $150. We've actually had, and this was years ago because I was actually still in CERV, um, a few students that would check out one of the biochemistry. 00:40:48.000 --> 00:41:05.000 would check out the biochemistry textbooks from the library, pay the $150, lost fee, and then sell it to the bookstore for 100 bucks after the semester was over as a used book. So, yeah. You got to give students credit. They think of everything. 00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:22.000 Um… Okie dokie. And so our replacement system is a little odd. It's kind of like with everyone else. It is a combination of the billing coordinator and whoever two billing coordinators. 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:52.000 Um, yeah, and believe it or not, we only have two billing coordinators for all of Cornell University, which is insane. Um, but it's a combination of our… one of our two billing coordinators with library technical services. And the workflow kind of is, um… When an item, when somebody asks to do a replacement copy, it's accepted by the building coordinator who does an initial check, but then it has to go to LTS for final verification. And if they do not agree. 00:41:52.000 --> 00:42:12.000 on the copy, then it is declined, flat out. Um, they also, we don't have a flat… We don't have a flat replacement fee. We have kind of a floating fee, and it's whatever library technical services tells us. So, for instance, if it's it's just a standard. 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:27.000 regular bound book, we don't charge a replacement fee, usually our processing fee. But if it's something that needs to be sent out for stiffening, or something of that nature, then we might charge them $25, $30, and we won't know that until it actually goes to LTS. 00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:43.000 So our referral is slightly different. But it sounds like this functionality would be fairly low priority, at least for the people in this group, if not really needed at all. 00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:46.000 Yeah, it sounds like the only workflow we don't really 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:51.000 have… I mean, your workflow, there certainly isn't anything now, but 00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:52.000 Yeah. 00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:58.000 David's works because they waive the whole thing. Like, if you wanted to keep the processing fee, there isn't… 00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:00.000 really a mechanism to do that. 00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.000 Easily. 00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:05.000 But how would you keep it on the… 00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:06.000 No, I think there would be. 00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:07.000 Right. 00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:10.000 like, if you don't pay the entire amount… 00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:13.000 It's not going to close the loan. 00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:14.000 The loan is going to stay on their account, right? 00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:16.000 They're two separate line items. 00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:20.000 Oh, is that how the processing fee works? The processing fee keeps the loan open. 00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:22.000 Well, ours is all one fee. Like, we only have one fee, so… 00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:25.000 I mean, that makes sense, I don't know, because I don't, you know. 00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:45.000 I think… I think you could waive the lost fee, and then just pay the processing fee. So if you had a processing fee of $50, then a loss fee of $150, you could waive the $150 fee, and then pay the $50 processing fee with, like, what David is doing with the… replacement copy, and that should allow the loan to close out. 00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:49.000 Right, but I'm saying if you want to charge the processing fee, 00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:54.000 You would have to wait for the user to pay it, or… right? Like, or to transfer it, or… 00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:55.000 Yes, yes, yeah. 00:43:55.000 --> 00:44:03.000 Well, but is that not what you would… Well, I mean, I guess part of this is, I mean, first of all, I don't know, because we don't have the separate fee, so I don't know what happens to the actual loan, but… 00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:06.000 I don't either. 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:20.000 So I don't know if the processing fee is treated more like an overdue fine, or more like the lost item fee. Like, I don't know. Can you have? And that would be a question that we could answer is, can you have an open. 00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:26.000 processing fee. But the loan itself is closed. Like, does paying the lost item fee. 00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:44.000 Close the loan, but the processing fee is left, because it's a processing fee, it's not… For the thing. So if you had those two, but then the other sort of philosophical question would be. 00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:46.000 Right. 00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:47.000 Yeah, it's complicated. 00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:52.000 Well, do you want the loan to be closed because they haven't actually paid the processing fee, so they do still need to… to do that, right? Um… and I just don't… I don't know… 00:44:52.000 --> 00:45:02.000 Yeah. So, like, I mean, from a technical perspective, you absolutely could pay the lost item fee with a replacement copy payment type and the processing fee would remain. 00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:03.000 I think the part that we don't know is… and then blocks would be based on. 00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:07.000 Right. 00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:16.000 either a law, you know. I guess the question is, yeah, what happens to that to that item? Does if you pay a lost item fee. 00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:24.000 But not the processing fee. 00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:52.000 Well, and actually, yeah, I agree. It needs to be tested, but I would also then pose the question is, how would people want it to work? So, one of the… one of the ideas is… to, I want to say, simplify, but combine right right now the… right now, they're two separate transactions. So you have when an item is marked as lost in the system automatically or manually, there is the loss replacement fee that is that is. 00:45:52.000 --> 00:46:01.000 can be assessed. There is a overdue fine that can be assessed, and then there's a processing fee that can be assessed. So, theoretically, if you have. 00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:21.000 policy set up for all three of those on a single loan, you have three fee fine accounts that are generated for that user. I'll think about why it's called an account in folio, but you have three separate accounts. My inclination is to get rid of the three separate accounts and that you have one account that represents all the fees. 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:36.000 and transactions for that loan. So instead of having 3 separate… bills, you have one bill that's representative of everything around that item or that loan. 00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:47.000 Would you expect that if somebody, like the scenario that we're talking about with the placement copies, if somebody gives you a replacement copy, but they still owe. 00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:54.000 The… An overdue fine, or a processing fee. 00:46:54.000 --> 00:47:00.000 would you expect the loan to still remain open? 00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:09.000 Or would you expect the loan to close? 00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:10.000 That's right, David. 00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:17.000 I don't know that I would have an I mean. I think that might vary by institution. But I'm just looking at the lost item fee policy page and I'm pretty sure the loan gets close. 00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:22.000 Mm-hmm. 00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:32.000 Because, uh… It's got settings like if lost item, returned or renewed, removed lost item, processing fee, yes or no. 00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:39.000 Um, if lost item replaced, remove lost item processing fee, yes or no. 00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:40.000 Mm-hmm. 00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:47.000 Um, replacement processing fee. Which is different from the lost item processing fee. 00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:48.000 Mm-hmm. 00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:59.000 and a no fee fines shall be refunded if a lost item is returned more than blank. So, like, some of this is like there were places put into this to tie in functionality that doesn't exist. 00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:00.000 Yes, yes. 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:09.000 So one thing would be… There is a place for a replacement. There was a concept of a replacement processing fee. 00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:22.000 That was separate from and different from a lost item processing fee, right? The lost item processing fee was a sort of you have inconvenienced us, and we are charging you $5 because you were a bad person. 00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:23.000 Right. 00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:29.000 Um, and we are judging you, and the replacement processing fee is you have created work for us, and we are charging you for our labor. 00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:33.000 To process this thing. I don't know if there… I don't think the replacement processing fee actually, like, does anything. 00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:38.000 Exactly. 00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:43.000 Like, I think you could put… I think you can put that amount in the… in the lost item fee policy, and I don't think it. 00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:51.000 Because there is no. mechanism of… processing a replacement copy. 00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:59.000 Therefore, there is no trigger for a replacement processing fee to be. 00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:00.000 I want to say… oh, sorry, go ahead. 00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:07.000 created. But in. I was just gonna say, but in Susan's example, then, if you did have that, that would be the way you would do it right? You would. 00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:21.000 You would potentially select, you would… pay for the lost item fee and the lost item processing fee with the replacement copy. It would close the loan, and then you would create. 00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:32.000 A replacement processing fee as part of that. Transaction. But that would require building up an actual. 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:40.000 replacement copy, trigger that's different than just me typing in the word replacement copy instead of credit card. 00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:49.000 Right, right. I thought I saw somewhere… 00:49:49.000 --> 00:50:06.000 Maybe not. I'm hallucinating. Um, I'd like to blame it on something else other than my brain being the way it is, but, um, I thought I saw somewhere that there was an option to say, uh, replace item, or replace copy on the loan record, or in the fee fine, but there isn't. 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:18.000 Um, so you're right, that, that's just basically… That field in there does absolutely nothing. Um… 00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:24.000 Yeah, I think all of those were placeholders, like, do you accept a replacement copy? Like, that was for future development. 00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:25.000 So, I think it's… 00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:27.000 Yeah. Yeah. 00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:29.000 Um… it's there if we decide to develop it. 00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:33.000 So, I… Exactly, I get, yeah. 00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:35.000 Shouldn't be grayed out. 00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:52.000 Yeah, yeah, um, and actually, that is on my list of revamping that policy, is either removing those or grading them out and making them inactive, since they don't do anything. Um, as well as rearranging some of the things. I guess it… I kind of go back to my original question, though, is that. 00:50:52.000 --> 00:51:04.000 If you have somebody that… if the fee fines are based on a single loan, and you have somebody that has a $150 overdue or lost fine, and a $50 replacement fine. 00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:22.000 a replacement fee. And they pay the $150, but don't pay the $50, should the loan be closed, or should it still be open? And the ramifications of that would be if the loan is still considered open, then it would count against their. 00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:31.000 lost items count. 00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:41.000 Ah, yes, Katie and then I saw David unmuted, so… I'm used to mute, Katie. 00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:46.000 This cannot ever find my little arrow. Okay. 00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:47.000 I have windows right in front of me, so, like, this glaring… 00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:50.000 It's okay. 00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:53.000 Um, if they return the item, 00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:59.000 or pay for the item, but do not pay the processing fee, I would expect it to close. 00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:05.000 And that processing fee remain. I don't think you need to pay 00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:08.000 Both, because that's just kind of like David was saying, a labor charge. 00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:14.000 So I… I would expect the loan to close. 00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:25.000 Would you feel the same with an overdue fee? 00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:26.000 Yeah. 00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:33.000 Yeah, and that's exactly… I mean, overdue fees are only charged when the loan is closed. That's exactly how I would treat it. And you can block somebody because of the amount of money they owe. 00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:34.000 Correct, correct. 00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:39.000 Um, which we do, right? Like, we block people at $50, and we block them if they have a lost item. 00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:51.000 So if they return to the item they or paid for the item, then the loan is closed because they have paid for it. Any processing fees would simply add towards. 00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:57.000 Blocking their account for other reasons. I would consider the loan resolved. 00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:01.000 which I think was… I think, Susan, was that your point, was that you were afraid that the loan would not be resolved. 00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:04.000 Exactly, yes. I think if they've… 00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:07.000 They've replaced the item, um, 00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:25.000 then it shouldn't be on there, because the fee fine should hold the loan information for reference. Like, if you need to go back and see why did they get this charge. 00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:26.000 So in that case, like, the lost item processing fee might even be. 00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:31.000 Okay. I'm just thinking. 00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:44.000 usable as a replacement. I get why we… talk… I mean, whatever, we talked in a lot… we talked about a lot of things. Um… I understand having a separate lost item and replacement fee, but processing fees, but… 00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:59.000 I would guess, Tom, if you test this, that paying for the lot paying the lost item fee will close the loan and the lost item processing fee just linger or not depending on what the. 00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:17.000 I agree. I did want to say that, yeah, that's how it works, because I haven't tested it, but I… my recollection is that is how it works, is that if you pay the… because they're separate accounts, it's easier to track. Because you're paying the lost item fee, that triggers the loan to be closed, and the other. 00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:38.000 the other processing fee overdue fees and all that other stuff, are just additional accounts that are open that happen to be associated with that same item and our loan. Uh, they don't actually… stop them from closing. I was kind of curious, like, what people thought was where they should kind of remain that way, or if it should still kind of be a blocker for the loan closing. Um… 00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:54.000 That sounds like it should kind of remain that way. And also kind of get back on the replacement copy thing, I think if the functionality that I'm showing on the screen right now with having an actual replace with copy functionality in Folio, that allows people to review it in that. 00:54:54.000 --> 00:55:09.000 I would almost change the… the replacement copy. Options to be more like the lost copy options, where you either can set a flat replacement copy, or have a to be assessed by staff. 00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:10.000 Uh, primarily because… I think with the universities that the universities that are doing well, there's ones that might just charge a $10 replacement processing fee, but then there's ones like Cornell that actually will go through and look at how much it's going to cost us to actually, like, stiffen the book, or rebind it, or something of that nature. 00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:28.000 You could see. 00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:43.000 Okay, cool. Really interesting conversation. Thank you, everybody. And we're at 6 min, so… I'm gonna say, everyone go to lunch. If you're in the correct time zone to do so. 00:55:43.000 --> 00:55:49.000 Or the desk, if your staff has called out sick. So, I'm headed to the desk. 00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:55.000 This is one thing I like about working from home, is nobody can call me and work at the Cirque desk. 00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:58.000 Indeed. 00:55:58.000 --> 00:55:59.000 Thanks, Tom. 00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:02.000 But, yeah. I kind of miss it a little bit. Thank you, everybody. Take care. 00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:09.000 Thank