WEBVTT

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Hey everyone!

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Laura Daniels: Hello!

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Kimberly Smith (MTSU): Hello?

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Someone actually rang my doorbell, and I was like, like, what's going on? I live in an apartment, so that doesn't happen very often. I was very excited.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): The little things in life.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Alright, let me get screen sharing set up here.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Sweet.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Alright.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): And do we have Joe?

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): I do have to.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): No, I'm not here.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Thank you, disembodied voice of Joe.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Okay, looks like people are piling in. Hopefully, I did not, again, send people to the wrong Zoom link, but I guess we'll find out on Slack if I did.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): All right, so, to get us started off, we have, just a little bit of housekeeping to take care of. The first is upcoming sessions. We do not have anything scheduled for this coming Monday,

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): I will check one more time on Slack if there are any topics, or feel free to shout it out, but if there are no topics, I will go ahead and cancel that. The meeting on Wednesday, April 1st, is going to be canceled for calendar calming. I think that's the week of Easter, which might be

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Why, that's a little bit different than normal?

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): So let me know if you have any topics for these, otherwise we'll go ahead and cancel.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): The next thing,

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): We are, of course, still in search of a new co-convener. I know that Laura's very interested in being potentially a co-convener, but we need at least two to make it a co-, of course. So we'll keep asking if there's anyone who would like to step up.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): I will, of course, stick around for March and April, and then we'll start figuring out if we have an actual problem on our hands.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): And then the last thing that I wanted to, ask is I created a draft of a cross-app stay working session, but we need to find someone who will actually

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): probably be at WolfCon, or at least virtually at WolfCon, to submit this, because I will be neither, and I've been told it's challenging to change, who the speaker is, like the main speaker. So if you'd like to volunteer, let me know, and I'll post again on Slack. I think I already posted this one.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): That's all the housekeeping I have. Did anyone else have any other announcements they wanted to make?

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Okay, sounds good. Alright, so that is you, Joe. Did you want to share your screen, or do you want me to just keep sharing?

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): It doesn't matter, because really all I've got is the page.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Doctor.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Yeah.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): But yeah, so this actually originated with… Was it Zach Burke?

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): The person responsible for the Stripes team.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Raised this with, with me.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Basically the core issue is that stuff that was developed very early on for acquisitions that was identified as an acquisitions requirement.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Behaves differently than… What is coded in stripes as the default behavior. And…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): behaviors should be in stripes wherever possible, because we want folio to behave consistently.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): So, the issue that we're facing is, we've got… business requirements.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): That exists in acquisitions, and this specifically pertains to… column.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Facets and filters, like, pre-selected filters in given, applications.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): So, I believe the Stripes default is when you enter an application, nothing is selected. But in Acquisitions, the Acquisitions module remembers what was last selected.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): And so, your pre-selected filters will carry on from session to session.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): The problem with that is, if a user copies and pastes a URL, it's going to behave differently.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): So this is where we… I said, you know.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): The acquisition SIG, I think, is generally happy with the behavior.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): But it's inconsistent with folio at large. So I wanted to come to…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): this broader group, this broader cross-app group, to discuss ways in which we might possibly find the best of both worlds, or how do we resolve this conflict? Because,

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Having one app.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): with separate behaviors. Again, inconsistency isn't good, but it's also challenging, just in terms of

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Testing and migration and translations, and all of those little under… other underlying things that feed into, Stripes.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): So that's… that's really why I'm… I'm… I'm coming to you, because we do have a business need.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): For creating durable filters.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): But I also recognize that that's not necessarily universal.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Laurel, Laura, I see you have your hand up.

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Laura Daniels: Yeah, I was thinking about this when I read this, and hearing you talk about it, thinking about it again, that I could see a lot of area… other places where some users really might want and benefit from durable filters.

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Laura Daniels: And so my ideal solution to this is probably a whole lot of work, but would be to… to make this personalizable across Folio… across the app, so that in every app.

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Laura Daniels: The filters are not… By default, sticky, but, each user or institution could set…

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Laura Daniels: filters, and I'm thinking of something like in inventory, if something is staff suppressed. Some institutions really want that always

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Laura Daniels: to be, not true for the default. Others want it to not be not true.

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Laura Daniels: So I, I see some potential here to…

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Laura Daniels: To come up with a better experience for everyone, if it's possible to prioritize that work for personalization.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I'm not opposed to, it might be a lot of work.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I know there's… A growing number of, of,

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Cases where we're starting to do personalization work.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): And this does seem like it would be a good candidate, which is why I wanted… one of the reasons I wanted to discuss it more thoroughly here. Especially if I can dump it onto Stripes rather than keeping it in ThunderJet. That would make me ecstatic. But,

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Yeah, so, I definitely don't want to discount that.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): But I think… Yeah.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Kristen, I see you've got your hand up as well.

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Kristin Martin: Yeah, this is just a question, if this is part of why the behavior's different, so…

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Kristin Martin: In reg… like, if you're in orders right now, and you do… You do a search,

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Kristin Martin: and you open up, say, like, a PO line, let's just, say, and you do another search.

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Kristin Martin: It doesn't close the peel line that you're looking at, you know?

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Kristin Martin: But if you're in inventory, it closes, like, the record that you're… we're currently looking at.

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Kristin Martin: Is that also going to be part of this change, or is that, like, a separate, issue?

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Kristin Martin: Because sometimes it throws people off.

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Kristin Martin: Like, you know, they… do you know what I'm saying? Like, if you do a search, especially, like, if you do, like, a general search.

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Kristin Martin: for a… and then you're like, oh, you know what, I actually… I have this really specific number, and then you can do a search for that number. You'll see the results

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Kristin Martin: in… Your details, but then what's actually open is not going to be related to your search anymore.

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Kristin Martin: Right.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): That hadn't been factored in, but, I…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Definitely think it's something that could be added to the page as an additional aspect of the problem.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): So, I'm glad… I'm glad you… you mentioned that, because this is some… another thing that we probably should raise with stripes.

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Kristin Martin: Because it got…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): This… this is about… this is about consistency across apps.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): And so, related to that, what should the behavior be? I would assume that in most cases, if you're

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): working in multiple areas or tabs, and you have to switch back and forth, you would want some memory of where you were working. I know in acquisitions, it's particularly important because so many various components of the system are impacted.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I don't know enough about inventory to,

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): To… to say for certain why that decision would have been made, but…

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Kristin Martin: Yeah, I think, you know, I like where Laura was going here, too, is just,

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Kristin Martin: Like, I know right now, if I'm working in acquisitions versus working in inventory, it just works different.

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Kristin Martin: And so I've gotten in the habit of, like, oh, if I'm doing a search in orders, I better make sure there's no filters on that I don't want, because I had previously done a search that used these filters. So I think the idea of maybe making it customizable

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Kristin Martin: would be really helpful. Maybe some people really like that, maybe they don't, you know?

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Kristin Martin: So, I like that direction.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Oh, and I see you've got your hand up, and I saw, Tara, you posted an important question in the chat as well, so go ahead, Owen.

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Owen Stephens: Yeah, so… First of all, though, I'd say

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Owen Stephens: Orders isn't the only app that has maybe some… some different behaviour.

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Owen Stephens: Around filters, and it's something that's been… An issue in agreements, And…

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Owen Stephens: Well, mainly agreements, I think, as well, which is that

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Owen Stephens: We've always had a default set of filters that are applied, automatically, on visiting the app.

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Owen Stephens: Which… Which is kind of partly because, I mean, essentially.

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Owen Stephens: the reasoning, I suppose, goes initially that

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Owen Stephens: If you've got a set of things where some things are shown and some things are not.

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Owen Stephens: And you have… some,

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Owen Stephens: Like, orders or, like, agreements where those things that are in the past and no longer active are really

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Owen Stephens: are rarely of interest to the current user. I mean, not never. Obviously, sometimes you want to find the specific thing.

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Owen Stephens: But often you're dealing with, you know, what is currently active on the system.

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Owen Stephens: then… Having the user have to click that filter every time.

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Owen Stephens: Feels like an imposition on the user.

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Owen Stephens: and not great usability. So, so Agreements has some default filters.

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Owen Stephens: They don't work in quite the same way as the…

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Owen Stephens: orders once, and that leads to some…

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Owen Stephens: different behavior, so the exact issue, I think, that led to this being raised in the first place was that if you paste a URL in orders.

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Owen Stephens: Actually, then the… filters are applied on top of the URL you have pasted, so…

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Owen Stephens: you kind of get a situation where the user's pasting a URL and then really not getting the results they're expecting. In agreements, we always…

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Owen Stephens: defer to what has been put into the address bar. So the address bar is the lead

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Owen Stephens: Thing, not the, not… the app never overrides what's been put into the address bar.

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Owen Stephens: So there's some different behavior there, but I think probably, like, the reasons at the heart of why agreements behave differently, you know, overlap at least, or are the same for why orders behaves differently in terms of

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Owen Stephens: the desire for use… from the desired behavior from a user perspective. And we have always kind of said.

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Owen Stephens: Making it customizable per user is probably the ultimate like…

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Owen Stephens: behavior you'd want here, that they could define

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Owen Stephens: the default filters that are used. And I guess that actually in…

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Owen Stephens: Inventory, there's kind of a bit of a…

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Owen Stephens: a cheat to this, which is there's the staff-suppressed thing that I think Just automatically applies unless you…

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Owen Stephens: kind of…

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Laura Daniels: It… that was changed, because so many of us.

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Owen Stephens: Okay.

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Laura Daniels: problems with it.

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Owen Stephens: So… so that… yeah, so that was a behavior, but it's just that this… this idea of automatically having some filters is a desirable behaviour, and I… I do think…

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Owen Stephens: that.

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Owen Stephens: having customizable options is probably the right way to go here. I do think, still, You shh…

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Owen Stephens: if somebody pastes something into the browser bar, I think overwriting that is dangerous. I think that that… that stops sharing… that stops users sharing links, and I think that that should be something that we should

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Owen Stephens: not do. I think that we… I think whatever solution here has to avoid a situation where you can't freely share a link with a colleague and… and have the behavior

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Owen Stephens: essentially have them see what you, you know, what you expect them to see. But, I think that having some ability to customize default filters, maybe even having some way of applying a set of filters that you've previously saved.

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Owen Stephens: rather than having to click through every… every filter that you want to apply to a particular scenario would be a really good idea. And… and to some extent, that is also something that we do in the…

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Owen Stephens: dashboard app is that actually

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Owen Stephens: What that allows the user to do is to save a set of filters, which,

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Owen Stephens: are used automatically. It's a bit of a different scenario, but it… but it's… I think, ultimately, it's the same idea, that

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Owen Stephens: some searches are more useful than others, and you might want to do them on a regular basis, and therefore, being able to access those searches and filters very easily is a good behavior. So, certainly very much in favor of

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Owen Stephens: having this customizable both at a tenant level, I think tenant level options are good, but I think ultimately you need it at a personal level, because,

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Owen Stephens: Staff… different members of staff will have different purposes that they go to the search screen to…

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Owen Stephens: to fulfill, and I think that that's really important. You know, if you're only dealing with monograph orders, why not have that as a filter that you've, you know, you're starting with? You don't need all the rest of the

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Owen Stephens: The stuff in there, so…

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Owen Stephens: Yeah, that's a long-winded way of saying, I'm with you, Joe. I do think there are some things we need to be careful about in terms of how pasting URLs work specifically, but in general, I think having some level of customizing both at the tenant and at the

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Owen Stephens: Personal user level is where we need to go, ultimately.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Yeah, the… where we do the custom… where we would do that… that setting of things.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I think it's safe to assume that most people

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Given the option, would prefer that it be personal rather than tenant-wide.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): And I'm… I'm thinking a small library would probably be fine.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): with tenant-wide.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Just based on their workflows, but when you get into larger institutions, where you have specialized staff that work in specialized areas.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): that… That could actually be counterproductive, because then you'd have,

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): For instance, if you have acquisitions and serials acquisitions that are separate, or e-resource acquisitions that are all separate.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): They're probably going to want separate

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Defaults, or different types of defaults, so…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): In that case, having it durable From session to session.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): or having a personalized per user would make a lot more sense. So,

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I think, in terms of doing it… I mean, I'm kind of of the opinion, even if it's more work, let's do it right the first time, especially since we are now introducing

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Aww.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Oh.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Some level of personalization.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): the other… the other question then would be…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): With the personalization, because we don't want death by a thousand paper cuts.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Would we want it, like, for me?

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): portfolio, remember all my settings, or would we want to break it down, say, by… app.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): or buy some other area, because I don't… I don't want it…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I'm assuming if you want it in orders, you'll probably also want it in invoices and receiving.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I could be wrong.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): But, like, does it make sense to do it in app acquisitions, or do I have to do it for each…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Old.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): each little sub-component.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I guess. It's… yeah, the question is, what is… what is the sweet spot in terms of granularity?

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Does personalization here remember the last thing I did, or set defaults?

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I was thinking remember the last thing I did.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Would, like, either remember or don't remember.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): But… We could certainly look at setting defaults.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): although setting defaults would then require… the setting defaults would require a lot more work, because then we'd need to figure out a place where to set defaults, or save what I've got as the default for this application.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): So, Joe, it sounds like you're saying that what you're proposing is app-by-app, or folio-wide, you could set

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): for the user to remember the last thing that they did. But I'm also hearing a lot of, like, there should be defaults, and they should be different for different members of staff.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I'm not, you know, I'm not necessarily married to a certain… I'm more trying to get to…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): what would the ideal case be here? We're gonna have to look at this, so that's kind of why I'm coming to you, is…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): you know, this was, brought to me by Stripes, saying, this is inconsistent. So, if we're gonna make it consistent, I want to do it right, and I want to talk with

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): a group that is invested in folio at large, and in multiple applications, because consistency is key. So if we're going to do it consistently, and if we're going to put it into stripes, how would we want it to work? How can we make this really good?

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): I mean, I'm definitely on team defaults, but my job's different from a lot of library users, so…

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): But it sounds like there are maybe others here who are also on Team Defaults.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I'm…

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Laura Daniels: Oh, sorry, go ahead.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Go ahead.

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Laura Daniels: I was gonna say, I'm very much on team defaults, because I know I'm not always going to Folio to do the same thing.

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Laura Daniels: And the apps that do remember what I did last time always throw me, because they're showing me something that was relevant to me last week, maybe. And I think

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Laura Daniels: it's rare. There are cases, but I feel like it's rare where a library staff person really only ever does one thing.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): And, like, the behavior in orders right now, at least, seems like it's, like, remember that you searched for newspaper a week ago? Is that right?

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Laura Daniels: Yes, and it always makes me wonder what I did wrong, because I'm expecting

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Laura Daniels: something different than, you know, what I might have done, literally, because I don't look in orders very often. I don't remember that I did that search, so I think it's making stuff up.

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Kristin Martin: Yeah, like, here's an example. So, if you're looking here, for example, we at Chicago should not have any order lines that are in the pending.

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Kristin Martin: category.

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Kristin Martin: But I might search… I might filter depending to find those out, and be like, oh…

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Kristin Martin: these are a problem, because, you know, something went wrong, and somebody didn't finish them, or whatever, so let's figure out what's happening. Then, if I come back to orders later, and I have an actual, like, PO number.

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Kristin Martin: I don't want it to be limited to pending. Like, I was doing that search because I, you know, needed to find things that were pending, and it was great, it was easy to find them, I got the report, I exported it out, you know. But when I'm, you know, if I'm searching by a PO number, I don't… I have to just make sure I reset my limits.

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Kristin Martin: So, I think that that's a little different, like, I would not choose to have, I only want to look at pending order lines as a default.

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Kristin Martin: But I like having that filter as an option to, like, check for it, you know?

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Maura, I see you have your hand up.

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Maura Byrne: Yeah, and this might be, you know, trying to, like.

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Maura Byrne: Come up with a technical solution before we've defined what we want.

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Maura Byrne: But what that sounds like to me is that, like, you've done this thing, your browser remembers it, at least for the duration of your browser session.

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Maura Byrne: And that, you know, it will forget it when you, if you do it again, unless you have something specifically

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Maura Byrne: Set as a default.

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Maura Byrne: But… you know, sort of, I'm thinking visually, if you have something where

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Maura Byrne: Your browser session is going to remember

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Maura Byrne: a filter that you put on, then maybe the thing to do is to have the

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Maura Byrne: You know, like, the indication of the filter being applied.

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Maura Byrne: Being, like, put at the top of this, like, list on the,

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Maura Byrne: On the left side here, in the left column, where we have, you know, repeat receipt status, and payment status, and etc, and etc. If that one could sort of be…

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Maura Byrne: you know, listed up top to say, oh, by the way, right now, you're filtering for this for at least the duration of this browser session. And if you want that to change, you can, you know, unfilter.

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Maura Byrne: So, that's, you know, that might be getting ahead of, you know, what we're… what we're talking about, but it seems like, you know, we're doing, you know.

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Maura Byrne: it seems like what we're… what we're looking for, you know, the I-wish involved, is that,

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Maura Byrne: We'd like to be able to do things in the short term, and have something remember, you know, in work that you're doing now, which we could call, like.

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Maura Byrne: you know, the app remembers it for the duration of the browser session, and then forgets it tomorrow, when you reopen the browser. As opposed to something you can set as a default thing, because it's something you do every time you're in that app.

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Maura Byrne: Do I… do I have that right?

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Maura Byrne: Yes, Laura.

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Maura Byrne: Of course we want folio to read our minds.

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Maura Byrne: But.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): But not with AI.

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Maura Byrne: No, no.

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Maura Byrne: AI is just a dressed-up Clippy.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Yeah, so I agree with what Tara… with what Tara says about, if you paste a URL,

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): the URL should be obeyed hard stop.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): And I think we agree with that. And I think that's one of the stated outcomes that we need. So, Tara, I'm going to put your mind at rest. That is one of the acceptance criteria for doing this, because URLs do need to behave consistently across the board.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): what I was going to ask is… so we're on… this is actually a really good screen to be on.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Where…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): how would… what would be the process, workflow, UX, whatever, that you would expect if you want to set a default search slash filter?

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Like, how would you want to say, I'm here in orders.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): this is what I want as the default.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Because… If we try to go into Settings.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): And do that for every screen. It's gonna be death by a thousand paper cuts.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): So you're picturing, like, like, kind of… I don't know if I can bring one of these up,

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): I'm sure someone knows what I'm about to say, but, like, you know, like, these little buggers here? Like, you're picturing one of those up here.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Where you could set defaults or something like that?

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): It's just something somewhere.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): like, and I'll probably need… I'll need to talk with Kimmy about it too, but, like, what would be quick, easy, painless, not take up too much real estate, and… and just make sense?

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Because, like…

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Like, something appear.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Yeah.

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Laura Daniels: Yeah, I think being over on the search and filter side would make more sense than over on the actions side.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Yeah, I was picturing, like, little… little… whatever icon means default to all humans in existence, like, on this thing. But this seems like… mostly, I just want to know what… what Kimmy says, because…

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): The last suggestion was great, and even smarter than me.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Kimmy is so good.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): But yeah, if I walk in with, like, a bad idea, then she'll take it and make it way, way, way better, rather than if I walk in with no idea.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): We've got at least two medium… okay.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Yeah, yeah, so, but I'm definitely getting loud and clear that having it in the search and filter bar somewhere, and maybe having a little icon.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Or… or in the orders drop-down, or something like that. Just… Set his, you know, Yeah, set default filter.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Owen is asking…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Do we need to collect user stories about when it's useful to preserve the last filter, and when it's useful to have defaults, and when it's useful to have no filter set?

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I think it would be worth doing.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I think in the absence of that, it makes sense

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): To have memory within a folio session.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): And defaults on a clean login.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): But that's just me.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): like, if I log out and log back in, I should expect everything to be clean. If I'm staying logged in, I'd want the memory, but…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): On the sample size of 1.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Hard refresh also resets, yeah.

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Laura Daniels: In my work, I am more likely to be frustrated by a filter still being applied that I forgot I set.

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Laura Daniels: than I am by having to set the filter, but that's also sample size of 1.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): you know.

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Maura Byrne: Oh, sorry.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I'm just… go ahead.

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Maura Byrne: I was wondering, to follow up on Laura's,

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Maura Byrne: question, and the notion that, you know, like, if you send a URL and you want it to behave the way that

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Maura Byrne: the URL, you know, is set.

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Maura Byrne: And not, sort of, override anything.

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Maura Byrne: Do you want, does that mean that…

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Maura Byrne: Does that mean that the app contains the filter and continues to contain the filter that's included in the URL until, like, you close that tab.

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Maura Byrne: And open a new one.

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Maura Byrne: Or does that filter propagate for the remainder of your browser session?

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Maura Byrne: In which case, you can… someone can…

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Maura Byrne: Inadvertently, set filters for you.

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Maura Byrne: by sending you a URL, and then you click on it, there's a filter being sent to get you the data you're looking for, and then when you come back to do something else, that filter is still

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Maura Byrne: is still working.

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Maura Byrne: And thus might confuse you.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): No, it's clear, it's something to think about.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I see Charlotte's comment about, an alternative to listing in the top of the search. Have a colored icon next to the given filter being selected as default.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I was thinking about, like, right under… I'm just spitballing here, right under the search and filter.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): As you check and uncheck, you have, like, a box that basically creates… shows you exactly

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): what's in real time. So, orders right underneath…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Orders, or above where, like, the little tabs, have a box that… because right now, it's just pending.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): So the… just… it only has status appending, and then as you add additional things, the box up top just fills in automatically.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): And when you set anything, then there's a little button saying, set default.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): could possibly be a way, yeah.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Because right now, yeah, we see status and order type are both selected, so I'm seeing, like, a little box right at the top.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Either under… right underneath search and filter and above orders, or right below orders, something.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Where it says… Orders, status equals pending, and order type equals… Whatever.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): So that you know… you see right at the top.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): that is the active filter. Precise… that is the precise filter. My only hesitation on, like, color coding and stuff is some apps have very, very long lists of filters, so you have to scroll through the whole list to see anything that's potentially filterable.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): We're having a box at the top saying, Yeah.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Yeah, reset all is…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): mostly… yeah, if you see reset all, that's usually correct, except I know for a fact we have an open bug for that, and…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): one of our apps where it's coming up is Reset All when it shouldn't, and…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): We are planning to get to that when we're able to.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Fucked.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Yeah, colors do add accessibility issues.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): The little X is a good indication that something in there is selected, but not exactly what. That's why I was thinking having a box up top, because that would just be very clear.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): And again, I'm sure Kimmy will have a thousand and one thoughts about the way we could handle this.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): But yeah, some sort of… we definitely need some sort of visual clue.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): So on the assumption that, an expert's going to come back with the best of all possible how-to-make-it-look-nice options,

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): going back to, do we need to collect user stories about when it's useful to preserve the last filter? Is that something that the cross-app SIG will need to do?

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Yes, probably.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I think it would be helpful. I can certainly bring it to the acquisition SIG, and I think, you know, people who have

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Aww.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): who are engaged with other SIGs, I think that would be very, very useful.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Just because, yeah, I mean, I think the various SIGs should, Should evaluate this, because…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): that those are where the real subject matters are, so… .

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Okay, so this seems like a case where, like, because it could potentially affect everyone, we have to make sure that we hit every single app that could be affected, right? Yeah.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): So, maybe, maybe we should do something… Slightly more…

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Shop around to our favorite sigs.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Yeah, I'll reach out.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): tables.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Is anybody here, part of Resource Access? If not, I'll ask Ann or Steph to…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Raise the issue with them.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Well, I think we need to form the question really specifically, because it's like.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Yeah.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): It's, it's hard to say, like,

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): when it's useful to preserve the last filter, because, like, the example that I thought of immediately was, like, when you're checking stuff out, and, like, you've got your patron here, and then you pop over to look at the patron, and then it takes you right back to the checkout screen, and that sticks around, but also…

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): I think while you're checking things out, the user sticks around, but that might be a function of actually what's in the URL.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Mmm.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Because I don't actually know how that's set, because I think if you go back to users after that, it will…

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): If after you end your checkout session, it'll be blank again, I think.

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Maura Byrne: I think that's how we have it designed, so that, you know, privacy.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Yeah, I mean, this is really easy to check. So it takes us straight to the user, you close out of that, and it's blank.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Right? But then I go back to checkout, and it's still up because I didn't end the session.

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Maura Byrne: Right.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): So I don't know if that counts or not, right? Because, like, that's going straight to a record rather than remembering a search.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): No, but it's a pattern we need to be aware of.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Because maybe that's a better pattern.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): So, no, I do think it's relevant.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Sweet.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Any other discussion?

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Laura Daniels: I'm wondering if maybe our next meeting, we want to try to…

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Laura Daniels: craft, some sort of, you know, just a couple slides and some prompts for us to take to SIGS, so we're all…

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Laura Daniels: Asking the same questions.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): That's a great idea.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Yeah.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Yeah, I think that's… I was gonna say we could also consider doing a,

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): like a… a Google survey or something, but yeah, we do… we absolutely need to be clear and consistent on the,

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Messaging. What time… what time is the Monday meeting?

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Same as this one, just on Mondays.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Okay, that one I have a conflict.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Okay.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Could we draft it and send it to you for feedback?

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Yeah, that's absolutely fine. And in fact, the page that I have set up,

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): That we were… yeah, where I'm outlining the problem.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Please feel free to edit that, and make additional, you know, feedback, Changes, and so forth.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): there are a few things that are… that are written in stone. Like the desired outcomes, I think that, at least what I've got there, is what Stripes is asking for.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): So we can clarify those, but,

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): that's, like…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Yeah, if there are additional outcomes, please feel free to add. But the three that I've added, those come from Stripes in terms of what they're expecting.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): But yeah, this is great, and…

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): like, I'm not claiming ownership over this page.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I… yeah, I… I actually would,

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): be very grateful if you would help answer some of these questions, because this is a community thing and not an acquisitions thing. It's just, we need to get

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Everybody in alignment, and acquisitions is one of the, problem children.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Not a problem, child.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Special flower.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): We're a problem child, I think.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Well, what a great opportunity to get some cool functionality added that could be useful across different apps.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): It's cool that a problem is becoming a feature.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Okay.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Alright.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Cool. Well, thank you so much for your time and for addressing this with me.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Absolutely, thank you for coming to talk with us. Is there anything else that we should talk about on this subject, or should we, just plan to pick this up on Monday while we're drafting those slides?

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I think… I think I have… I've said everything that I need to say, everything that I need to say on this, and we've had a really good conversation, so I've got a lot of ideas and a lot more,

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I'm getting a lot more clarity.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): And raising a lot more questions, but we're getting closer to the point where we can actually define a feature. So once we have the feedback from the SIGs.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): I think we can build out the feature, and then I'll coordinate with Stripes on where to go from there.

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): So this is great, thank you.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Amazing! Any more questions for Joe before we,

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Probably list the SIGs we'll need feedback from. Yeah, we should list the SIGs we need feedback from, but I think we should actually list it app by app, because it's going to be different, per…

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Sorry, per section of folio.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): I'm sure. And which… which SIG owns them. Does that make sense?

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Laura Daniels: Yes.

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Okay, awesome. Great. Okay. If we have nothing else to go over today, I will, post what we need to do on Slack, and follow up on the WolfCon, question. But other than that, I think we are good for the day, so I will wish everyone a happy Wednesday, and we'll see you next week!

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Tara Barnett (Index Data): Alright, thanks.

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Laura Daniels: Thank you!

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Joe Reimers (EBSCO): Thanks.