WEBVTT 1 00:01:26.110 --> 00:01:27.240 Demian Katz: Blue? 2 00:01:27.440 --> 00:01:33.760 Nicole Trujillo: Hello, good morning, afternoon, or evening, depending on your… time frame. 3 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:45.300 Nicole Trujillo: Thanks for joining today. I'll give back a few more minutes. I know there's… 4 00:01:45.490 --> 00:01:50.370 Nicole Trujillo: We'll have a lot of absences, there's a lot going on. This week in particular, with… 5 00:01:50.780 --> 00:01:53.700 Nicole Trujillo: Different conferences and events happening. 6 00:01:56.310 --> 00:01:59.979 Nicole Trujillo: I can go ahead and put our agenda in the chat. 7 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:39.789 Nicole Trujillo: And since I have a few people here, our next meeting scheduled for March 17th is… 8 00:02:40.420 --> 00:02:45.570 Nicole Trujillo: I know we're getting into, spring break weeks, 9 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:49.779 Nicole Trujillo: Some holidays coming up in different parts of the countries. 10 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:55.380 Nicole Trujillo: Are people able to attend that date, or is that looking like a difficult date for people? 11 00:02:55.990 --> 00:02:57.729 Demian Katz: Not a problem for me. 12 00:02:57.730 --> 00:02:58.360 Nicole Trujillo: Okay. 13 00:02:58.940 --> 00:03:01.080 Jen Bolmarcich: And works for me as well. 14 00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:04.629 Demian Katz: It's actually spring break here this week. 15 00:03:05.370 --> 00:03:07.489 Nicole Trujillo: Oh, well, thank you for joining! 16 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:11.280 Demian Katz: Oh, it doesn't really affect me, but there are no students around. 17 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:12.190 Nicole Trujillo: Yes. 18 00:03:12.590 --> 00:03:18.710 Nicole Trujillo: No, same, the 17th is ours, but again, I'm… Not going anywhere, so… 19 00:03:20.150 --> 00:03:23.789 Nicole Trujillo: It'll be nice and quiet for… for a while. 20 00:03:27.290 --> 00:03:31.220 Nicole Trujillo: We're gonna actually move to, Sunflower that week. 21 00:03:32.410 --> 00:03:40.999 Bernd Oberknapp: So, the next meeting, then, would be the 31st. I think this is, one of the meetings that should be skipped. 22 00:03:42.010 --> 00:03:43.240 Nicole Trujillo: The 31st? 23 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:58.109 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, because it's… it's… I'm not sure if it's actually the first week of April or the last week of March. If it's the last week, we have this rule that we should skip meetings in the last week of the month. 24 00:04:00.570 --> 00:04:03.210 Nicole Trujillo: You're right, it's both. First and last… first… 25 00:04:03.510 --> 00:04:07.029 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, therefore I'm not sure, therefore I'm asking. 26 00:04:07.580 --> 00:04:09.860 Nicole Trujillo: I think we agreed that we don't… 27 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:17.069 Nicole Trujillo: have to abide by that rule, but, like, I told… I will put a note that we should skip, and if there's nothing pressing, we will skip. 28 00:04:18.089 --> 00:04:21.349 Bernd Oberknapp: If it's actually the last week of the month. 29 00:04:26.820 --> 00:04:32.419 Nicole Trujillo: Well, cool! We're… so we got a good crowd, so I think I'll go ahead and get started. I'm just gonna put that. 30 00:04:32.630 --> 00:04:35.690 Nicole Trujillo: Agenda in the chat again for everybody. 31 00:04:36.080 --> 00:04:44.799 Nicole Trujillo: So the first thing on the agenda for today is submit your proposal to WolfCon. Is anyone here planning on presenting? 32 00:04:46.510 --> 00:04:59.440 Demian Katz: I will be presenting, but virtually, as I will not be physically there. But I have some viewfind helpers on the ground, so anyone who wants to do Viewfind stuff and won't be there, I can connect you. 33 00:05:01.030 --> 00:05:10.680 Nicole Trujillo: Wonderful, thanks for that, Damien. And if you want to put that in the chat, too, in case we have any people who are, like, wanting to present on ViewFind, but may not be physically present. 34 00:05:11.140 --> 00:05:17.050 Nicole Trujillo: At this space, because I believe that's a requirement. You have to have at least one physically present person to present. 35 00:05:17.290 --> 00:05:18.360 Demian Katz: Correct. 36 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:32.979 Demian Katz: Yeah, I will put in the chat the link to the, Viewfind Summit page, because we are merging this year's International Viewfind Summit with WolfCon, so, 37 00:05:33.760 --> 00:05:37.000 Demian Katz: You get two conferences for the price of one. 38 00:05:37.780 --> 00:05:43.379 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, I saw that. That looks great. Do you think that's gonna be an ongoing thing, Damien, or are you just trying it out for this year? 39 00:05:43.580 --> 00:05:55.950 Demian Katz: We've actually done it before. There's an annual viewfind conference in Germany, so sometimes we go to WolfCon, and sometimes we merge with the German event, but this year, WolfCon made more sense. 40 00:05:56.210 --> 00:05:57.000 Nicole Trujillo: Okay. 41 00:06:11.640 --> 00:06:14.709 Bernd Oberknapp: So I'm wondering, who plans to attend the WorldCon? 42 00:06:14.820 --> 00:06:17.059 Bernd Oberknapp: Not virtually, but in person. 43 00:06:19.060 --> 00:06:24.009 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): I… I just got okay from my boss, so I… I will be there. 44 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:26.600 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): It's close by. 45 00:06:30.090 --> 00:06:33.309 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I might, might also be there, I'm not, not really sure. 46 00:06:33.440 --> 00:06:36.240 Bernd Oberknapp: But, yeah. 47 00:06:36.940 --> 00:06:37.870 Bernd Oberknapp: Might be the case. 48 00:06:38.650 --> 00:06:41.150 Sarah Seestone: I'm also on the fence, so… 49 00:06:47.750 --> 00:06:49.519 Nicole Trujillo: I will not be going this year. 50 00:06:49.700 --> 00:06:50.320 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah. 51 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:51.300 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah. 52 00:06:51.610 --> 00:06:53.240 Jen Bolmarcich: I have no money. 53 00:06:56.220 --> 00:06:59.000 Nicole Trujillo: But I will hopefully be attending virtually. 54 00:07:01.930 --> 00:07:04.369 Nicole Trujillo: Always really enjoy all the presentations. 55 00:07:09.860 --> 00:07:20.940 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, yeah, I'll probably also, like, in the chat, just encourage people to, if they're thinking of discovery presentations, to go ahead and submit. I think it's in April is the due date for that. 56 00:07:24.810 --> 00:07:28.230 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, any other updates, before I move on to JARA's? 57 00:07:33.850 --> 00:07:40.139 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, so we have a few JARAs to review, as well as kind of our 58 00:07:40.440 --> 00:07:44.070 Nicole Trujillo: Older ones… let's see if I can open that up. 59 00:07:45.340 --> 00:07:51.210 Nicole Trujillo: I will go ahead and share my screen, just so I can see what we're talking about. 60 00:07:58.480 --> 00:07:59.510 Nicole Trujillo: That even? 61 00:08:03.420 --> 00:08:05.600 Nicole Trujillo: Are you… is anyone seeing anything? 62 00:08:06.770 --> 00:08:09.139 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, good, you're seeing the JARA page? 63 00:08:09.140 --> 00:08:09.620 Demian Katz: Yes. 64 00:08:09.620 --> 00:08:12.280 Nicole Trujillo: Wonderful. One of my screens just went, like, dark, so… 65 00:08:12.280 --> 00:08:12.879 Demian Katz: Let's make sure. 66 00:08:12.880 --> 00:08:17.140 Nicole Trujillo: the right one was highlighted. So this one, 67 00:08:18.280 --> 00:08:24.989 Nicole Trujillo: I just threw a couple up here. Oh, thank you so much, we got some comments. So… 68 00:08:25.100 --> 00:08:29.930 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, so that first one we can just remove. Wonderful. 69 00:08:35.059 --> 00:08:38.320 Nicole Trujillo: That second one… 70 00:08:43.380 --> 00:08:47.750 Nicole Trujillo: So this is include additional mark fields for stub records. 71 00:08:49.140 --> 00:08:56.740 Nicole Trujillo: And that was a good question. How many libraries create instant records without using MARC? 72 00:09:00.390 --> 00:09:09.730 Nicole Trujillo: Does anyone kind of know the answer to this? Because I know some libraries do load e-resource records without using Sourcemark, but I don't know if that's what they're talking about here. 73 00:09:12.300 --> 00:09:19.109 Sarah Seestone: I had similar questions and put the call out, but… to our cataloging group, because I don't know. 74 00:09:19.490 --> 00:09:26.430 Sarah Seestone: But I think we do do e-records… Source folio. 75 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:34.629 Sarah Seestone: And… But it's… I don't know. I don't know that it's applicable to us either way. 76 00:09:34.930 --> 00:09:35.490 Nicole Trujillo: Okay. 77 00:09:36.460 --> 00:09:42.789 Demian Katz: Just for a little context, maybe it's worth noting that, you know, there's already… 78 00:09:43.010 --> 00:09:59.779 Demian Katz: the ability to map non-MARC instance records to MARC through OAIPMH, and it's a flag that can be turned on or off, so I assume this ticket is just about adding some new features to that, but the feature is already there, unless I misunderstand something. 79 00:10:01.250 --> 00:10:09.130 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, so it's something that's already working, it's just to add some more capabilities we don't need to follow? Right. Is your suggestion? 80 00:10:09.640 --> 00:10:10.340 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Sorry, at… 81 00:10:10.340 --> 00:10:10.919 Jen Bolmarcich: I mean, yeah. 82 00:10:10.920 --> 00:10:11.420 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): What is… 83 00:10:11.420 --> 00:10:14.420 Jen Bolmarcich: Functionality is there, 84 00:10:14.640 --> 00:10:24.059 Jen Bolmarcich: you know, you can control it, and it's part of the OAIP image settings. You can basically say, do you want it to just harvest source mark. 85 00:10:24.410 --> 00:10:29.239 Jen Bolmarcich: You know, or do you want it to harvest anything that's in inventory? 86 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:40.219 Jen Bolmarcich: But… This is… So this looks like it's a very specific issue. 87 00:10:44.760 --> 00:10:46.630 Jen Bolmarcich: About the 3-3. 88 00:10:49.410 --> 00:10:50.320 Bernd Oberknapp: Oh, it's about… 89 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:50.970 Jen Bolmarcich: sticks. 90 00:10:52.050 --> 00:10:53.240 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, like, it's not… 91 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:55.140 Jen Bolmarcich: Being mapped back to… 92 00:10:55.720 --> 00:11:08.710 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, it's not just about that field, I think it's about, having… not having a mark record, one that is generated, and you get just a stop record in that case, where… where some… 93 00:11:08.880 --> 00:11:10.080 Bernd Oberknapp: Pizza missing. 94 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:18.250 Bernd Oberknapp: So, this was my question I put, put into the list. Yeah. 95 00:11:18.370 --> 00:11:29.900 Bernd Oberknapp: Is that actually something that's common, that libraries are creating inventories and not having marked data in Folio? 96 00:11:30.860 --> 00:11:39.920 Bernd Oberknapp: I mean, I know there are libraries that don't have any MARC data, but they won't be harvesting, data… mark data from folio. 97 00:11:40.900 --> 00:11:45.440 Nicole Trujillo: No, we create stubs for reserve items, and there's no source mark for those, I believe. 98 00:11:46.160 --> 00:11:52.310 Nicole Trujillo: So we're mapping, basically, the fields and inventory to MARC to make it showable in the catalog. 99 00:11:57.200 --> 00:12:03.610 Bernd Oberknapp: So, why are you doing that? Because it's less work than to do a full mark record? 100 00:12:04.750 --> 00:12:14.559 Nicole Trujillo: I don't know, it wasn't really my decision. I do know we've looked into it for e-resources, because we can't delete, and it's causing issues with not being able to delete eResources, just in… 101 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:19.179 Nicole Trujillo: Lots of different ways for us, because we have a lot of e-resources that need deleted. 102 00:12:21.930 --> 00:12:24.110 Nicole Trujillo: So this would allow us to actually, like. 103 00:12:24.950 --> 00:12:28.079 Nicole Trujillo: delete them. Like, if you have SourceMark, you can't… 104 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:31.969 Nicole Trujillo: Get rid of anything in any way, shape, or form. 105 00:12:34.370 --> 00:12:47.129 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): And I can also… it could be other kinds of material. Like, for example, we don't want to catalogue our board games into the national catalogue. We do them directly in folio. 106 00:12:47.700 --> 00:12:52.090 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): And then we… at the moment, we don't display them in EDS, but… 107 00:12:52.580 --> 00:12:55.909 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): We can load them to EDS if we would like to. 108 00:12:56.660 --> 00:12:59.459 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): I don't know if that's a use case as well. 109 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:06.079 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): But I'm not sure what stub record is. 110 00:13:10.700 --> 00:13:12.650 Demian Katz: So that's usually just, like… 111 00:13:12.650 --> 00:13:14.690 Jen Bolmarcich: Something like a short, brief. 112 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:20.350 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, just a basic record with the minimal data that's available. 113 00:13:20.540 --> 00:13:23.430 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Yeah, in that case, those are stop records. 114 00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:24.500 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah. 115 00:13:26.270 --> 00:13:35.270 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, so I guess I can see this being related to discovery, since it is about creating records for discovery based on data in folio. 116 00:13:35.550 --> 00:13:40.140 Nicole Trujillo: And metadata display sounds like a great… Place to put it? 117 00:13:40.290 --> 00:13:41.720 Demian Katz: Yeah, I think so. 118 00:13:46.820 --> 00:13:48.429 Nicole Trujillo: I have it there. 119 00:13:48.570 --> 00:13:57.950 Nicole Trujillo: And then there's also… so there were… I will admit, there were a couple down here that I was like, it kind of looks like this is more about our… 120 00:13:59.060 --> 00:14:04.980 Nicole Trujillo: Can you place a whole request func and recall functionality stuff that we… 121 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:16.259 Nicole Trujillo: it's… it seems like they're really dividing that up into smaller and smaller parts, so I didn't bring any of those forward, but feel free to, like, come back and review those, and we will talk about 122 00:14:16.390 --> 00:14:17.700 Nicole Trujillo: after this. 123 00:14:18.050 --> 00:14:22.710 Nicole Trujillo: But I did bring forward this one in that it was… Goof… 124 00:14:24.780 --> 00:14:30.609 Nicole Trujillo: include display summary, because this is one that I've actually been expecting… 125 00:14:31.300 --> 00:14:36.470 Nicole Trujillo: That there's a new field in the item record, 126 00:14:37.740 --> 00:14:47.849 Nicole Trujillo: so once again, a field that's in folio that's not necessarily in the source mark, that we might… patrons might want to… or patrons… librarians might want to display, 127 00:14:48.100 --> 00:14:55.470 Nicole Trujillo: as end-user information, and correct me if I'm wrong, is this the one that's generated by the Serials app, or is this something different? 128 00:14:56.220 --> 00:14:59.050 Jen Bolmarcich: It's available in any item record. 129 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:07.530 Jen Bolmarcich: But… If you are using the serials app, you know, it… you can kind of pre-populate it. 130 00:15:07.770 --> 00:15:16.059 Jen Bolmarcich: That way, the… It does look like this is about the OAI. 131 00:15:16.300 --> 00:15:24.249 Jen Bolmarcich: holdings output, because the display summary is exported if populated in RTAC. 132 00:15:24.950 --> 00:15:27.239 Jen Bolmarcich: Which, you know, will… 133 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:27.650 Nicole Trujillo: Okay. 134 00:15:27.650 --> 00:15:33.820 Jen Bolmarcich: Which… We'll often, you know, override the… 135 00:15:34.220 --> 00:15:40.270 Jen Bolmarcich: kind of base OAI load information. So, if there are situations where people 136 00:15:40.420 --> 00:15:45.569 Jen Bolmarcich: are harvesting via OAI, but not using RTAC. 137 00:15:45.700 --> 00:15:46.400 Nicole Trujillo: Oh. 138 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:47.699 Jen Bolmarcich: I think that… 139 00:15:47.990 --> 00:15:54.419 Jen Bolmarcich: I mean, so I guess I'm trying to figure out, sort of, when you would be using one but not the other. 140 00:15:58.380 --> 00:16:06.919 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, and this somewhat looks like a bug to me. They've added the display field, but, 141 00:16:07.460 --> 00:16:09.210 Bernd Oberknapp: It's not exported. 142 00:16:09.680 --> 00:16:12.769 Jen Bolmarcich: Right. Yeah, it's not mapped in the… 143 00:16:13.220 --> 00:16:13.880 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah. 144 00:16:13.880 --> 00:16:18.380 Jen Bolmarcich: so… 145 00:16:18.690 --> 00:16:23.450 Bernd Oberknapp: So this, maybe this was overlooked when the… when the display summary was introduced. 146 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:32.370 Jen Bolmarcich: I mean, I suppose it is… it would be good for them to be consistent, but… I really don't… 147 00:16:32.670 --> 00:16:35.409 Jen Bolmarcich: I pers… you know, personally, I really wish… 148 00:16:36.160 --> 00:16:44.869 Jen Bolmarcich: There was less of this hard code, you know, this is only the thing that's going to display, rather than making that configurable. 149 00:16:45.290 --> 00:16:48.640 Jen Bolmarcich: You know, at the tenant level, like… 150 00:16:51.260 --> 00:17:09.339 Jen Bolmarcich: you know, because the display summary is relatively new, you know, we've got an awful lot of things that, you know, don't have it. But also, there may be cases where we want, you know, other pieces to just, you know, to take precedence. 151 00:17:09.470 --> 00:17:13.579 Jen Bolmarcich: They're, you know… Cereals can be really weird. 152 00:17:13.700 --> 00:17:21.359 Jen Bolmarcich: And we, you know, there's a lot of legacy data, you know, that, you know, kind of carried over in slightly different ways, depending on… 153 00:17:21.369 --> 00:17:29.359 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, but that wouldn't end up in display summary. Display summary will only be populated if you put… deliberately put data in. 154 00:17:29.360 --> 00:17:33.070 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah, I guess I'm… it's more about the philosophical of. 155 00:17:33.070 --> 00:17:33.470 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah. 156 00:17:33.470 --> 00:17:38.890 Jen Bolmarcich: Here's another hard-coded preference, you know, when… 157 00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:48.320 Jen Bolmarcich: Making this a configurable setting would solve more problem… you know, a broader set of 158 00:17:49.820 --> 00:17:59.839 Jen Bolmarcich: Of issues, you know, especially because there is no way to, you know, currently move data that, say, is in enumeration and chronology or in volume to 159 00:18:04.270 --> 00:18:05.150 Jen Bolmarcich: You know. 160 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:06.810 Jen Bolmarcich: So, I… I just… 161 00:18:08.290 --> 00:18:16.170 Bernd Oberknapp: So… so you would like to see some… something like a… an inventory to mark mapping that you can configure? 162 00:18:16.630 --> 00:18:17.450 Jen Bolmarcich: Yes. 163 00:18:17.450 --> 00:18:21.369 Bernd Oberknapp: Based on… Yeah, I'm wondering if… if… 164 00:18:21.560 --> 00:18:32.040 Bernd Oberknapp: The rule that is requested here is if display summary is populated, it should be used, otherwise the other data, the existing data, should be used. 165 00:18:32.230 --> 00:18:43.299 Bernd Oberknapp: That's a fairly simple rule, if you have a more complex one, like, well, I might have display summary, but I don't want to display it, then it gets really complex. 166 00:18:43.590 --> 00:18:46.559 Jen Bolmarcich: Right. I feel like we're gonna end up with 167 00:18:48.850 --> 00:18:50.629 Jen Bolmarcich: You want to make sure that 168 00:18:51.680 --> 00:19:00.799 Jen Bolmarcich: If they then make, you know, if other changes are… Made in… RTAC for, you know. 169 00:19:07.210 --> 00:19:12.849 Jen Bolmarcich: I… and I don't know that you would necessarily… You know, depending, 170 00:19:13.800 --> 00:19:23.190 Jen Bolmarcich: I don't know that every library would always want to not include enumeration and chronology and data if they're mapping that differently for indexing or something. 171 00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:33.049 Jen Bolmarcich: you know, I can just think of a lot of scenarios where 172 00:19:35.830 --> 00:19:42.660 Jen Bolmarcich: This may not, you know, necessarily be a… you know, maybe enumerations being used to control a sorting 173 00:19:43.020 --> 00:19:50.130 Jen Bolmarcich: tool, and then, you know, display summary being the human-readable version, then you lose that input. 174 00:19:51.520 --> 00:19:58.539 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, Jen, could you make a comment on this ticket, kind of saying what you're saying? Just because I think you bring up a good point, and… 175 00:19:58.850 --> 00:20:02.989 Nicole Trujillo: I'm afraid to make a comment, because I'm like, I don't quite know enough to, like… 176 00:20:02.990 --> 00:20:03.770 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah, yeah, so… 177 00:20:03.770 --> 00:20:13.060 Nicole Trujillo: This is configurable, right? Like, I don't know, but yeah, I get what you're saying about, just because it's true for one library, you know, this is a local field, what is… 178 00:20:13.530 --> 00:20:14.080 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah. 179 00:20:14.080 --> 00:20:19.870 Nicole Trujillo: Should it be hard-coded, or should libraries have the option to adjust this as need be for their use cases? 180 00:20:26.500 --> 00:20:31.389 Nicole Trujillo: I just hate to see them build in more hard-coded things that we're cursing in 3 years. 181 00:20:35.500 --> 00:20:38.640 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah, so, but I will comment on the JIRA itself. 182 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:44.999 Nicole Trujillo: Thank you for that. Thank you for bringing up those concerns. 183 00:20:45.510 --> 00:20:48.920 Nicole Trujillo: Let's see… 184 00:20:56.850 --> 00:21:02.120 Nicole Trujillo: I guess I can put metadata display, this is also indexing, but we don't have one for that, so… 185 00:21:02.800 --> 00:21:03.670 Nicole Trujillo: Works. 186 00:21:04.770 --> 00:21:05.730 Nicole Trujillo: Close enough. 187 00:21:12.950 --> 00:21:20.920 Demian Katz: Alright, and I'm adding these as we go. So, do you mind scrolling up a little so I can see what needs to be added to the very topmost one? I missed that. 188 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:23.229 Demian Katz: Oh, no action. No action. 189 00:21:23.230 --> 00:21:23.730 Nicole Trujillo: Very good. 190 00:21:24.300 --> 00:21:26.630 Nicole Trujillo: We're already done with the first one. 191 00:21:27.020 --> 00:21:30.589 Nicole Trujillo: And… Then this one was… 192 00:21:31.610 --> 00:21:45.010 Nicole Trujillo: holds only request policy and allowable items for requesting. And I tried to summarize this as best I could, but this seems to be, like, if you're a library doing title of a request, but you don't want… 193 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:59.210 Nicole Trujillo: you don't have a recall policy, right? Like, you want your… your patrons have to come into library and get the books themselves off the shelf. You're not going to do that for them. And they request an item that has been checked out, which then they could pick up from the 194 00:21:59.330 --> 00:22:05.669 Nicole Trujillo: the desk. But there's two other items on the shelf to make them go to the shelf and pick it up. That's my summary, but I… 195 00:22:05.810 --> 00:22:07.549 Nicole Trujillo: Could be incorrect here. 196 00:22:07.900 --> 00:22:08.730 Nicole Trujillo: Okay. 197 00:22:09.740 --> 00:22:16.950 Nicole Trujillo: And then… Or do you put, this might be more of a bug than an enhancement? 198 00:22:17.410 --> 00:22:33.289 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, because in the end, if you try to check out the book, this is my understanding, if you go to the library, get the book from the shelf, and try to check it out, it will result in an error, so you cannot do that. 199 00:22:33.650 --> 00:22:36.050 Bernd Oberknapp: So that's the buck part. 200 00:22:36.250 --> 00:22:37.540 Bernd Oberknapp: In my opinion. 201 00:22:39.040 --> 00:22:46.950 Nicole Trujillo: But it might, like, let's say there was only one copy, right, and somebody had checked it out, then that would be a legitimate request to… 202 00:22:47.940 --> 00:23:03.350 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, but the problem is the one that can be, the one is… you have one that is checked out, you have two that are left on the shelves, and you can go in the library, fetch one, and you go to the checkout, and it doesn't work. 203 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:10.770 Bernd Oberknapp: you should be able to check it out, but it doesn't work. So that's… that's the buck, in my opinion. 204 00:23:13.540 --> 00:23:19.999 Demian Katz: So because you have a title-level hold on the item, it won't let you check out the item? Is that… the bug? 205 00:23:25.220 --> 00:23:35.769 Nicole Trujillo: I think… I wasn't understanding that. I thought you could, you definitely could still… it's just that the patron, instead of going to the library and checking it out personally, is just placing a hold on the… 206 00:23:36.700 --> 00:23:40.279 Nicole Trujillo: Oh, no, you're right, because it's title level, they don't have a choice, so it… 207 00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:43.929 Nicole Trujillo: So the bug is its title level, and it shouldn't be… 208 00:23:45.040 --> 00:23:48.139 Nicole Trujillo: going to the one that's checked out. It should be going to the… 209 00:23:51.820 --> 00:23:57.089 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, if you look at the document attached to the, cheer up. 210 00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:02.310 Bernd Oberknapp: It actually shows the first… 211 00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:07.600 Bernd Oberknapp: Image is actually the error message you get when you try to check it out. 212 00:24:15.040 --> 00:24:19.130 Bernd Oberknapp: And it says it has been requested by another patron. 213 00:24:20.170 --> 00:24:24.510 Demian Katz: But that's you. You are that other Jason. 214 00:24:24.890 --> 00:24:26.030 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, it… 215 00:24:26.420 --> 00:24:40.889 Bernd Oberknapp: I've read the description multiple times, I'm still not really sure if I understood it, but this… because of this error message, you have one that you could fetch and should be able to check out, and you cannot check it out. 216 00:24:41.840 --> 00:24:52.850 Bernd Oberknapp: That looks like an error to me, so… Well, we can discuss if it's an enhancement to make this possible, or if it's a part. It doesn't really matter, it should work. 217 00:24:52.850 --> 00:24:53.880 Nicole Trujillo: This is true. 218 00:24:54.220 --> 00:24:55.140 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah. 219 00:24:55.310 --> 00:24:56.300 Nicole Trujillo: End. 220 00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:57.230 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah. 221 00:24:57.780 --> 00:25:08.720 Nicole Trujillo: Anytime we go into title-level requests, like, my mind goes into overdrive to, like, yes, title, how does that actually, like, there's a lot of rules in place for those to work. 222 00:25:09.500 --> 00:25:16.170 Nicole Trujillo: So this definitely seems like kind of a new request. 223 00:25:19.260 --> 00:25:20.240 Nicole Trujillo: item. 224 00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:31.600 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): But is it related to discovery? 225 00:25:36.840 --> 00:25:37.400 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah. 226 00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:38.630 Nicole Trujillo: That's true. 227 00:25:39.090 --> 00:25:42.350 Nicole Trujillo: It… it might be, because it might need a dis… 228 00:25:43.560 --> 00:25:51.770 Demian Katz: Well, the title-level request is getting placed in Discovery. If this is a patron-initiated request, that's the only place that could really happen. 229 00:25:52.400 --> 00:26:00.049 Sarah Seestone: Yeah, it's like it's the beginning of the process, but it's not actually related to the bug at all. I mean… 230 00:26:01.940 --> 00:26:19.270 Demian Katz: I mean, I think the part that's potentially discovery-related is if they fix the bug so that you can't place a title-level request when there's an available copy, you would want to be sure that discovery displays an appropriate error message so the user understands why their request is failing. 231 00:26:19.270 --> 00:26:20.380 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Hmm. 232 00:26:22.130 --> 00:26:24.740 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah, because that would look really bad. 233 00:26:25.450 --> 00:26:27.820 Demian Katz: Yeah, yeah. 234 00:26:30.040 --> 00:26:33.030 Nicole Trujillo: Again, I can add a no at that. Yes. 235 00:26:34.930 --> 00:26:43.570 Jen Bolmarcich: I think in… Yeah, it's a matter of how does this logic appear to the patron, and… . 236 00:26:45.170 --> 00:26:50.100 Olga: Did they mention in what system it happens? In what discovery? 237 00:26:52.080 --> 00:26:56.130 Nicole Trujillo: There was a note, like, is this an EBSCO patron empowerment issue? 238 00:26:56.320 --> 00:26:58.960 Olga: It's probably EGS. 239 00:27:01.360 --> 00:27:15.280 Demian Katz: But I would… I would expect that the problem would exist in any discovery that integrates with Folio, so long as Folio is allowing this illegal hold to be placed in the first place. You know, as long as you can place a bad hold, it's a bug. 240 00:27:15.410 --> 00:27:22.890 Demian Katz: Once they fix the bug, there will be an error message that needs to make its way back to the discovery system, whatever it may be. 241 00:27:24.510 --> 00:27:31.189 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, so I added a note to that ticket, just to be like, what is going to be displayed to the patron if they fix this, so they know. 242 00:27:31.310 --> 00:27:34.279 Nicole Trujillo: And we can mark this under request. 243 00:27:35.130 --> 00:27:35.790 Demian Katz: Done. 244 00:27:36.560 --> 00:27:37.489 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I'm wondering… 245 00:27:37.490 --> 00:27:38.400 Sarah Seestone: Neat… 246 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:41.010 Bernd Oberknapp: You, you, you, you… Sorry, go ahead. 247 00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:44.140 Sarah Seestone: As you say, so just me here, wouldn't we actually… 248 00:27:44.290 --> 00:27:52.009 Sarah Seestone: I mean, I realize that you're using title-level holds, and that's your kind of… That's the… 249 00:27:52.260 --> 00:27:57.300 Sarah Seestone: the method that you're asking the system to do. But in this case, you probably just… 250 00:27:57.500 --> 00:28:00.340 Sarah Seestone: I want it to become a copy level hold. 251 00:28:00.740 --> 00:28:05.439 Demian Katz: Well, this is… this is specifically… Oh, because, I'm sorry, the user… 252 00:28:05.590 --> 00:28:09.389 Demian Katz: Copy level holds aren't allowed for available items. Yeah. 253 00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:17.399 Sarah Seestone: That's… I'm trying to wrap my head around it, because I'm really grateful that we'll never have this scenario. Yeah, same here. 254 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:21.119 Demian Katz: Hopefully this is a narrow edge case. 255 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:38.619 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, and I just was wondering, Damien, when you said illegally request, I'm wondering if it's actually illegal, or if it should be placed on the copy that can be requested instead of one that is, cannot be requested. 256 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:40.850 Demian Katz: Well, but the scenario is… 257 00:28:40.850 --> 00:28:41.920 Sarah Seestone: from renewing. 258 00:28:42.780 --> 00:28:44.720 Sarah Seestone: When there's other available. 259 00:28:45.610 --> 00:28:52.360 Demian Katz: I think the scenario, though, is that this is an institution that does not allow requests to be placed on available items. 260 00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:59.050 Nicole Trujillo: Which I… yes. If you don't have the staff, you can't do it. 261 00:28:59.980 --> 00:29:03.469 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, but that's… that's actually tricky, because that… 262 00:29:03.630 --> 00:29:06.959 Bernd Oberknapp: I think that could occur in our library, too. 263 00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:26.020 Bernd Oberknapp: We have lots of institutes where there are separate libraries, where you might just get the book if you go there, but we might have the same book in the library, in the magazine. So, you can request that one. 264 00:29:26.140 --> 00:29:28.319 Bernd Oberknapp: But you cannot request the other ones. 265 00:29:28.930 --> 00:29:31.870 Bernd Oberknapp: And… 266 00:29:32.230 --> 00:29:39.640 Bernd Oberknapp: Currently, if you… you can place a request, but you have to wait until that copy is returned from the main library. 267 00:29:40.990 --> 00:29:51.239 Bernd Oberknapp: So, the request wouldn't be illegal, just would be, maybe less. You would have to wait longer for a book, in that case, so, 268 00:29:51.580 --> 00:29:56.030 Bernd Oberknapp: In our case, the request wouldn't be illegal. 269 00:29:56.910 --> 00:29:57.500 Demian Katz: I assume. 270 00:29:57.500 --> 00:30:01.880 Bernd Oberknapp: We require a different circulation rule, probably, for that. 271 00:30:04.950 --> 00:30:08.949 Nicole Trujillo: Right, but you're not using the title level holds for your system. 272 00:30:09.030 --> 00:30:12.019 Bernd Oberknapp: We are not yet on folio, so… 273 00:30:12.530 --> 00:30:26.090 Bernd Oberknapp: a different library system that allows title level holds to use title-level holds in this case, but, the rules probably differ from folio and our current library system. 274 00:30:26.740 --> 00:30:36.049 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, because the circular… I think the circulation rules can control for that, because they can get pretty… they can get pretty intense, as you all know. 275 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:45.200 Nicole Trujillo: So you could set it up so that this wouldn't be illegal, but I guess the bug is they're trying… they've set it up so that it is, but it's still working. 276 00:30:45.390 --> 00:30:46.749 Nicole Trujillo: And it shouldn't be. 277 00:30:47.740 --> 00:30:50.060 Sarah Seestone: And I don't think that this is… 278 00:30:51.430 --> 00:30:58.079 Sarah Seestone: what I keep thinking of is, like, well, shouldn't Discovery be able to figure out that this isn't possible, and… 279 00:30:58.320 --> 00:31:16.760 Sarah Seestone: suppress a request button, right? That… so that's, I think, how we would try to solve the issue, is you've got this… something that's going to result in illegal… we would want to stop the request button from being drawn, instead of drawing a request button, and then telling the user, oops, sorry, just kidding, can't. 280 00:31:16.990 --> 00:31:26.440 Demian Katz: Yeah, yeah. I think both things are true, though. Like, you definitely want a way to block it at discovery, but you don't want it to be able to slip through the cracks somehow. 281 00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:39.880 Sarah Seestone: Sure, of course, of course, of course, but it all goes back to, yes, you… you need something in the system that's telling you either an error message or something, some response in the API that says, nope, we can't. 282 00:31:40.180 --> 00:31:40.690 Demian Katz: Yeah. 283 00:31:40.690 --> 00:31:43.199 Sarah Seestone: API, but some responses said you can't do this. 284 00:31:43.730 --> 00:31:52.619 Bernd Oberknapp: That actually would be fixed if we… one of our main priorities would be implemented, so that we can get the information if something is requestable. 285 00:31:52.620 --> 00:31:53.390 Demian Katz: Yes. 286 00:31:53.390 --> 00:31:56.180 Nicole Trujillo: I was gonna say, this is a great segue to the next topic. 287 00:31:57.510 --> 00:32:02.680 Nicole Trujillo: About our two, like, high priority, 288 00:32:02.990 --> 00:32:05.669 Nicole Trujillo: Jarrah's that we're trying to get, like. 289 00:32:06.370 --> 00:32:09.310 Nicole Trujillo: More traction on and figuring that out. 290 00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:27.339 Nicole Trujillo: And looking… I was trying to… from the last meeting, I was trying to get examples of, like, cases of where this is an issue to try and get at more specifics and see at what level we should advocate for. Jira-wise, like, is there a more specific JIRA ticket that we should replace the other one with? 291 00:32:28.840 --> 00:32:40.289 Nicole Trujillo: And my overall, like, question was exactly your question, Sarah. Like, is… is it better error messages, but… or is it just a better way to not display the action? 292 00:32:40.460 --> 00:32:52.800 Nicole Trujillo: so that they don't even see the error message. Like… and I guess maybe that's up to the discovery end to do, but it's important information, I think, to put in to be like, we are hoping for 293 00:32:53.710 --> 00:32:59.699 Nicole Trujillo: Better ability to put this button… to display a button or not display a button based on these. 294 00:33:00.080 --> 00:33:01.340 Nicole Trujillo: Rules. 295 00:33:01.340 --> 00:33:05.720 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Or displaying another… information, because… 296 00:33:05.860 --> 00:33:12.910 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): The lack of a button is also something that creates confusion. Why is there no request button? 297 00:33:15.030 --> 00:33:21.450 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): So… This… this item is not… this… this record is not requestable. 298 00:33:23.410 --> 00:33:26.379 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): That kind of information would be nice, I think. 299 00:33:26.930 --> 00:33:41.940 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, of course you can… if you always want to use the same information, you could, of course, do that without getting any information back. Just the information itself requestable would be sufficient. But if you want to know why it's not requestable. 300 00:33:42.390 --> 00:33:43.760 Bernd Oberknapp: gets more tricky. 301 00:33:46.420 --> 00:34:00.580 Nicole Trujillo: And I'm thinking of loan types, and, like, in different solutions, different libraries have used to address exactly this, to let the patron know this is library use only, therefore, you're probably not expecting to see a placehold button. 302 00:34:00.580 --> 00:34:10.440 Nicole Trujillo: Unless it is because it's a special collections item, and you do want to place a hold, because you do have to in order to see it in the library in the special collections request room. 303 00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:25.120 Nicole Trujillo: I don't have an answer to this question, but thank you for adding that, extra piece, because you're right, it's… it's a… there's a lot of different, UI or user interface solutions to this… this issue. 304 00:34:27.050 --> 00:34:34.749 Nicole Trujillo: And because we have so many different libraries doing different things, I don't know… I have the question of how discovery layers are… 305 00:34:35.730 --> 00:34:43.440 Nicole Trujillo: can design for this, loan types being a perfect example of some libraries use them, some libraries don't, some libraries use them, but they're not 306 00:34:43.750 --> 00:34:52.460 Nicole Trujillo: They're not words you would want to display to a patron, where some configure them so that you would absolutely want to display them to the patron. 307 00:34:52.969 --> 00:34:57.549 Nicole Trujillo: And then some people have discovery systems where one can display it and the other one can't. 308 00:34:57.770 --> 00:35:06.770 Nicole Trujillo: Me. So, lots of questions with different solutions about how do we… how do we let people know how they get the item? 309 00:35:09.020 --> 00:35:30.119 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I think making this configurable on the discovery system side is not the real problem. You can do that if you can adapt the code. Of course, if you have a commercial product, you need to get the provider to adapt the code for you, or make it configurable for you, but I think, 310 00:35:30.120 --> 00:35:35.259 Bernd Oberknapp: Actually, mapping that to the information that has to be displayed shouldn't be the big issue. 311 00:35:35.260 --> 00:35:38.790 Bernd Oberknapp: The issue is actually getting the information, so… 312 00:35:38.860 --> 00:35:43.860 Bernd Oberknapp: That you need to actually make a decision what to display. 313 00:35:48.490 --> 00:35:51.130 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, so let's see… this is… 314 00:35:58.510 --> 00:36:00.250 Nicole Trujillo: Oh, I want to do renewals. 315 00:36:00.250 --> 00:36:00.880 Bernd Oberknapp: Boom. 316 00:36:01.240 --> 00:36:02.490 Nicole Trujillo: Did I start with renewals? 317 00:36:03.260 --> 00:36:08.830 Nicole Trujillo: So this is request, and then the renewals one, so… Yeah, 318 00:36:08.980 --> 00:36:11.390 Nicole Trujillo: So we got some examples here. 319 00:36:13.520 --> 00:36:20.740 Nicole Trujillo: But I guess my question still stands as to if… and I do apologize, I haven't… I still haven't really heard anything back. 320 00:36:20.930 --> 00:36:24.980 Nicole Trujillo: About the prioritization list from the product… 321 00:36:25.350 --> 00:36:29.590 Nicole Trujillo: Owners Guild… Product Owners Guild? Like, no, that's our internal one. 322 00:36:29.590 --> 00:36:30.430 Jen Bolmarcich: Product counts. 323 00:36:30.430 --> 00:36:34.730 Nicole Trujillo: Product cancel, thank you. Thank you, Jen. The product council, like. 324 00:36:35.270 --> 00:36:43.710 Nicole Trujillo: has not given me any more information about where they're going with it, other than they are gonna be going forward with it in some way, shape, or form. So… 325 00:36:44.230 --> 00:36:52.620 Nicole Trujillo: I'm assuming we'll be able to change these priorities, so my question kind of is, it's like, do we try and advocate for these tickets, or are there better tickets? 326 00:36:53.030 --> 00:36:59.480 Nicole Trujillo: maybe… That can, start this work, or is working on this work. 327 00:37:06.440 --> 00:37:16.140 Bernd Oberknapp: Well, in my… Depends on whether the decision is actually to only look at the, hence. 328 00:37:16.550 --> 00:37:21.529 Bernd Oberknapp: Issues in, in certain… Statuses? 329 00:37:21.680 --> 00:37:24.350 Bernd Oberknapp: So, if draft is not sufficient. 330 00:37:24.990 --> 00:37:30.809 Bernd Oberknapp: then we have a problem. Then we need to move this forward, actually, to get it into another studies. 331 00:37:32.910 --> 00:37:41.000 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, and I'm happy to try and work on this particular issue, but I just remember from past conversations, we were like, is there… 332 00:37:42.560 --> 00:37:49.440 Bernd Oberknapp: I think we probably need to talk to a product owner to get this forward. 333 00:37:58.740 --> 00:38:01.420 Bernd Oberknapp: But that's already… that's the… 334 00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:14.910 Bernd Oberknapp: I'm not sure, is that one of our priority tickets? 335 00:38:15.600 --> 00:38:18.249 Nicole Trujillo: This, this one, the enhancements to our tech… Yeah. 336 00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:19.350 Nicole Trujillo: No. 337 00:38:19.690 --> 00:38:24.010 Nicole Trujillo: It's not… I just… it was just linked as the parent to this one. 338 00:38:25.570 --> 00:38:26.370 Bernd Oberknapp: Oh, okay. 339 00:38:29.200 --> 00:38:31.150 Nicole Trujillo: And it has a little more, 340 00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:36.119 Nicole Trujillo: action, and I think this is because there's been a huge push 341 00:38:36.500 --> 00:38:41.279 Nicole Trujillo: within the EBSCO community about this particular topic, because 342 00:38:41.520 --> 00:38:48.470 Nicole Trujillo: Of the way their system currently is able to allow patrons to request items. 343 00:38:49.430 --> 00:39:02.330 Nicole Trujillo: Sorry, I'm speaking because I don't actually know. We don't have patron empowerment in EDS, but I think this is where a lot of this work is coming from, and why there's getting a lot more action on requests in particular, because they're trying to let people 344 00:39:02.660 --> 00:39:05.490 Nicole Trujillo: Check out multiple things at one time. 345 00:39:05.930 --> 00:39:06.760 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah. 346 00:39:07.460 --> 00:39:10.360 Jen Bolmarcich: I suspect that some of the… 347 00:39:10.620 --> 00:39:13.730 Jen Bolmarcich: pressure is coming from Library of Congress needs. 348 00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:25.439 Jen Bolmarcich: As well, you know, just in terms of the kinds of requesting that maybe… maybe happening. 349 00:39:28.610 --> 00:39:29.300 Jen Bolmarcich: But… 350 00:39:29.940 --> 00:39:34.420 Nicole Trujillo: So, like, is this… so should we… I guess this question is, like, should we replace, kind of, this with 351 00:39:35.100 --> 00:39:36.300 Nicole Trujillo: this, or is… 352 00:39:49.190 --> 00:39:52.950 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I'm not sure that's an… Is that a… 353 00:39:54.440 --> 00:40:00.620 Bernd Oberknapp: No, that's not an epic. It's just the… Parents. 354 00:40:03.820 --> 00:40:05.820 Nicole Trujillo: I mean, it is an epic… 355 00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:12.510 Demian Katz: I mean… That's RTAC-specific. 356 00:40:13.140 --> 00:40:17.550 Demian Katz: And isn't the other ticket… More general, actually? 357 00:40:17.550 --> 00:40:18.110 Jen Bolmarcich: Yes. 358 00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:27.679 Bernd Oberknapp: And for viewfind, we probably need the more general one. 359 00:40:27.850 --> 00:40:29.170 Demian Katz: Yes, definitely. 360 00:40:29.170 --> 00:40:33.079 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, because it's not using the LTEC. 361 00:40:34.630 --> 00:40:40.710 Demian Katz: I would think the RTAC implementation would also still need that underlying functionality in order to function. 362 00:40:41.220 --> 00:40:41.970 Jen Bolmarcich: Right. 363 00:40:41.970 --> 00:40:43.429 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, let's hope so. 364 00:40:45.680 --> 00:40:52.590 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah, the actual information needs to be provided, you know, whether that goes via, you know, MudRTAC or… 365 00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:56.220 Jen Bolmarcich: a different API is. 366 00:40:57.830 --> 00:41:01.320 Demian Katz: Yeah, so I'd still be in favor of beginning at the beginning. 367 00:41:01.740 --> 00:41:08.120 Bernd Oberknapp: Yam… Maybe it would help to talk to Kalaila as the product owner. 368 00:41:08.240 --> 00:41:09.710 Bernd Oberknapp: For all these tickets? 369 00:41:10.780 --> 00:41:14.359 Bernd Oberknapp: To see if they are… what they intend to do with them. 370 00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:25.670 Nicole Trujillo: Okay. 371 00:41:26.010 --> 00:41:28.879 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, I could reach out to Kalela and see if… 372 00:41:30.810 --> 00:41:35.270 Nicole Trujillo: If, like, it'd be like, these are in draft, we've been told… 373 00:41:35.590 --> 00:41:41.430 Nicole Trujillo: by Product Council, we want to get them out of draft, like, what are the next steps 374 00:41:42.390 --> 00:41:45.249 Nicole Trujillo: and see… What she has to say? 375 00:41:45.620 --> 00:41:52.290 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, and maybe we actually need to advocate for… for not looking at this in the context of the attack. 376 00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:00.799 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, that would be a good question to ask, like. 377 00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:07.880 Bernd Oberknapp: And, yeah, and therefore, I would prefer to keep those two, tickets compared to the para ticket. 378 00:42:09.190 --> 00:42:09.790 Nicole Trujillo: Okay. 379 00:42:19.190 --> 00:42:23.430 Nicole Trujillo: And I will go ahead and add these to the comments. 380 00:42:24.060 --> 00:42:31.199 Nicole Trujillo: And if other people have other examples they want to add to the comments as well, please go ahead and do so. 381 00:43:01.290 --> 00:43:08.769 Nicole Trujillo: And with that, those are the two other items on the agenda. Was there anything else people wanted to discuss, or had questions about? 382 00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:22.980 Bernd Oberknapp: I was wondering, we've, we had this survey, I think, 2 years ago. 383 00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:28.320 Bernd Oberknapp: So, is… are there any plans to do a new survey? 384 00:43:28.790 --> 00:43:35.009 Bernd Oberknapp: And if so, if… Would that be before WolfCon, or after WolfCup? 385 00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:40.459 Bernd Oberknapp: I think time is… 386 00:43:41.260 --> 00:43:44.939 Demian Katz: running out for doing this before WolfCon, I think. Yes. 387 00:43:47.720 --> 00:44:05.300 Demian Katz: Do we have any activities planned for WolfCon where it might make sense to talk about a future survey, or is the fact that at least a significant number of us won't physically be there too much of an obstacle to make that practical? 388 00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:10.120 Nicole Trujillo: I mean, I think… 389 00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:22.400 Nicole Trujillo: And Mari, you had a great point in the last discussion that we had about a survey, and that your core question is, what do… what do people want this SIG to do for them, right? Like, and the 390 00:44:22.610 --> 00:44:40.249 Nicole Trujillo: I… do we do yearly enhancement surveys to just let the different products know what people are really wanting? Do we do, more like what we did last time, which is just a big, every three to five years, what are… what are the things missing in your discovery environment, site surveys? 391 00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:46.629 Nicole Trujillo: Is there something else, like trainings or topic discussions that people would like us to see? 392 00:44:46.730 --> 00:44:56.670 Nicole Trujillo: So that, to me, that's a really interesting question. Like, I don't… I don't know what people really want from this group. I have my own ideas of what they could want, or what I want from this group. 393 00:44:56.840 --> 00:45:03.040 Nicole Trujillo: In the future, as other people take control and become… chairs, but… 394 00:45:03.700 --> 00:45:09.000 Nicole Trujillo: that's just personal for my institutional… institution. So… 395 00:45:09.110 --> 00:45:15.489 Nicole Trujillo: Was that… that was kind of your question you were thinking of, right, Marie? And is that kind of a question other people have been thinking about? 396 00:45:18.270 --> 00:45:21.359 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Don't recall that, but… maybe. 397 00:45:23.910 --> 00:45:24.990 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): But I don't… 398 00:45:25.140 --> 00:45:32.449 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): think that people have the time to answer this survey about what they want from the SIG, to be honest. 399 00:45:33.330 --> 00:45:35.560 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): We are all a bit survey. 400 00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:36.760 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): M. 401 00:45:38.050 --> 00:45:39.370 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Fed up. 402 00:45:41.240 --> 00:45:51.190 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Maybe? So, I… I think more like, 403 00:45:51.400 --> 00:45:59.339 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Well, last time, when we asked about pain points of the system, what are you, really? 404 00:45:59.670 --> 00:46:03.069 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Missing? What's making your life problematic. 405 00:46:03.830 --> 00:46:07.980 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): That's, maybe more engaging? 406 00:46:08.790 --> 00:46:15.580 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): but it's also very… It's also… 407 00:46:16.490 --> 00:46:19.090 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): It takes time and effort to answer. 408 00:46:19.660 --> 00:46:21.569 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Not… not only to… 409 00:46:22.050 --> 00:46:27.790 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): To take care of the survey results and make the survey, but also to actually answer the survey. 410 00:46:28.210 --> 00:46:32.030 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): But maybe more like, 411 00:46:32.460 --> 00:46:35.740 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): I wonder if it would be doable to do some kind of 412 00:46:36.180 --> 00:46:44.230 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): interviews, or talk to, would you be willing to… can it be… 413 00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:52.929 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Deep… a little bit more deep dive to find the dishes in… In the interview format. 414 00:46:53.120 --> 00:46:54.660 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): With a few. 415 00:46:55.010 --> 00:46:59.000 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Selected. I haven't thought through this. 416 00:46:59.160 --> 00:47:00.819 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): I'm just thinking now. 417 00:47:01.170 --> 00:47:07.450 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I was wondering if we actually do… should do something like a review? What has changed? 418 00:47:07.710 --> 00:47:13.190 Bernd Oberknapp: Since we have identified the pain points last time, 419 00:47:15.250 --> 00:47:18.660 Bernd Oberknapp: But if we come to the conclusion that 420 00:47:18.860 --> 00:47:25.889 Bernd Oberknapp: Not much… much has changed. It doesn't make… probably doesn't make sense to make a new server, because the same… 421 00:47:26.010 --> 00:47:27.919 Bernd Oberknapp: We would get the same answers. 422 00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:34.039 Demian Katz: I agree, I would start with a review before I would do another survey, and if… 423 00:47:34.080 --> 00:47:53.760 Demian Katz: you know, maybe we find that we've done quite a lot, and then we want to celebrate those accomplishments and share them with the community, and if we find that we have not done a lot because we're blocked at various fronts, then I think we need to get unblocked before we ask for even more work that we can't get done. 424 00:47:55.090 --> 00:48:06.279 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, and I do remember when… after we did the pain points survey, we did a presentation at WolfCon to look at what had been done since the Pain Point Survey as well, so we could revisit the 425 00:48:06.890 --> 00:48:10.690 Nicole Trujillo: kind of that survey and findings in the presentation, the… 426 00:48:11.190 --> 00:48:18.540 Nicole Trujillo: I guess it wasn't even a year later, it was a few months later, about the work being done and planned to do, since a lot of that work was done 427 00:48:23.330 --> 00:48:29.610 Nicole Trujillo: Would you… would that be, like, an internal investigation for just this SIG, or it's something that we plan on presenting on at WolfCon? 428 00:48:30.620 --> 00:48:38.299 Demian Katz: I think we should do an internal investigation first, and then we can decide if that is a presentation or not. 429 00:48:39.250 --> 00:48:44.000 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I think Trillium is scheduled for May? 430 00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:51.320 Bernd Oberknapp: So maybe that would be a good point, to look at, what has changed. 431 00:48:54.600 --> 00:48:58.630 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): But at the same time, you need to actually have implemented it into your… 432 00:48:59.610 --> 00:49:01.850 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Discovery to see the changes. 433 00:49:02.370 --> 00:49:03.240 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): I think. 434 00:49:05.340 --> 00:49:18.149 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): But I wonder, could… now I'm thinking aloud again, sorry, if it could be, like, some kind of a workshop at Wolfcon? 435 00:49:20.160 --> 00:49:29.660 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): when we… Kind of look at the discovery system that we have, and Talk loud and take notes. 436 00:49:31.510 --> 00:49:37.030 Demian Katz: That's true, we could have a working meeting, essentially, of this committee. 437 00:49:37.260 --> 00:49:40.560 Demian Katz: or the SIG as a WolfCon event. 438 00:49:40.670 --> 00:49:50.490 Demian Katz: And then if people want to be involved or not, as long as someone is willing to run that in a hybrid format from… from the venue. 439 00:49:55.980 --> 00:50:03.589 Demian Katz: I just double-checked, and the proposal submission deadline is March 25th, so we have 440 00:50:03.710 --> 00:50:13.030 Demian Katz: a couple more weeks to think about it, and I think there's a chance that the deadline will get extended, because it often does, but probably not too far. 441 00:50:13.330 --> 00:50:21.660 Demian Katz: But we could maybe put in a placeholder for that kind of a working meeting, and then repurpose it, revise it a little if, 442 00:50:22.610 --> 00:50:25.439 Demian Katz: If we find that it could be used in a better way. 443 00:50:29.860 --> 00:50:33.020 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, and I'm thinking if we could even get that, like… 444 00:50:33.140 --> 00:50:50.269 Nicole Trujillo: previous pain points, internal assessment done before that working meeting that could kind of be the beginning of the meeting, and then some kind of, like, Jamboard or way of talking about, like, your personal top 5 things you want to see done. 445 00:50:50.270 --> 00:50:51.070 Demian Katz: Yeah. 446 00:50:56.590 --> 00:50:59.870 Nicole Trujillo: Does somebody want to, develop that… 447 00:51:00.140 --> 00:51:07.189 Nicole Trujillo: Well, I guess I should first say, does that sound like a good idea? Doable in the timeframe that we've been given? 448 00:51:16.130 --> 00:51:23.619 Sarah Seestone: Like always, it feels like I am, you know, deep in a development work cycle at Stanford that I have 449 00:51:24.020 --> 00:51:28.459 Sarah Seestone: No available time right now, I will admit. 450 00:51:29.030 --> 00:51:33.810 Sarah Seestone: And I… there's a big question mark about whether or not I'll be at WolfCon, so… 451 00:51:34.280 --> 00:51:41.840 Sarah Seestone: I'm happy to participate some in meetings, but my outside meeting time is really limited right now. 452 00:51:42.290 --> 00:51:51.389 Demian Katz: Similarly, my best committed time for this is these meetings, but we do have a meeting in two weeks on the 17th. 453 00:51:51.470 --> 00:52:09.459 Demian Katz: maybe we could dedicate that meeting to reviewing our past presentations, talking about them, and making a decision about whether to submit a proposal, assuming there's nothing more urgent on the agenda. I think we actually could probably do quite a lot in an hour if we put our heads together. 454 00:52:09.850 --> 00:52:10.750 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah. 455 00:52:11.250 --> 00:52:17.339 Jen Bolmarcich: I think, yeah, just kind of maybe pulling up the last data and just kind of walking through it and seeing 456 00:52:17.800 --> 00:52:20.930 Jen Bolmarcich: And that'll at least kind of indicate 457 00:52:22.060 --> 00:52:24.919 Jen Bolmarcich: Do we have something to move forward with or not, you know? 458 00:52:25.150 --> 00:52:33.479 Demian Katz: Exactly. Between all of us, I trust that we can remember a few things. I don't trust myself to remember anything. 459 00:52:33.740 --> 00:52:45.879 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, I can set the agenda up for that and just link to all the relevant documents so that they're ready for a discussion, with the goal being, at the end of that meeting, deciding, do we do this? And, like, if we decide, you know, yes. 460 00:52:46.100 --> 00:52:48.649 Nicole Trujillo: Maybe just write it out, submit it there. 461 00:52:48.790 --> 00:52:50.670 Demian Katz: Yeah. And if we decide no… 462 00:52:51.420 --> 00:52:52.280 Nicole Trujillo: Work is done. 463 00:52:52.280 --> 00:52:54.749 Demian Katz: No harm done, yeah. 464 00:52:55.640 --> 00:52:56.390 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Sounds good. 465 00:52:59.320 --> 00:53:14.469 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, yeah, I can set up that up for the next meeting, and we can decide that then, and thanks for bringing that topic back, because it's been sitting in the back of my mind of wanting to talk about it again, but I wasn't sure how to frame that conversation, so this is a good next step. 466 00:53:14.930 --> 00:53:21.090 Demian Katz: WolfCon always jumps on us faster than we expect. At least that's my experience. 467 00:53:24.220 --> 00:53:29.120 Nicole Trujillo: Great, any other topics that people wanted to dive into in these last few moments? 468 00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:40.899 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): I just saw an announcement that EDS is going to change the… 469 00:53:41.310 --> 00:53:44.409 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Design a lot this summer. 470 00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:53.619 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Yes. And, that could be something that we need. Well, I don't know if we should ask Tammy to have a presentation for us, what's in… 471 00:53:54.070 --> 00:53:58.520 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): In it for, well, changes that could apply, too. 472 00:53:58.630 --> 00:54:00.130 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): our areas. 473 00:54:02.340 --> 00:54:03.010 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah, like. 474 00:54:03.010 --> 00:54:08.039 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): I'm thinking about my account placement, for example, and of course, Artec. 475 00:54:08.720 --> 00:54:10.390 Jen Bolmarcich: Right, right. 476 00:54:11.330 --> 00:54:15.050 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah, and I think it's, it's interesting, and… 477 00:54:15.750 --> 00:54:18.619 Jen Bolmarcich: on the EDS partners list, you know, there's… 478 00:54:18.910 --> 00:54:20.739 Jen Bolmarcich: There were some recent, you know. 479 00:54:21.340 --> 00:54:25.530 Jen Bolmarcich: requests for feedback on linked data development, and I'm kind of like… 480 00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:29.610 Jen Bolmarcich: This would have been a nice thing to be asked about. 481 00:54:31.050 --> 00:54:36.020 Jen Bolmarcich: If I… I mean, I think in some ways, a lot of it 482 00:54:36.330 --> 00:54:39.669 Jen Bolmarcich: The general thrust of it does seem to be a… 483 00:54:41.680 --> 00:54:48.880 Jen Bolmarcich: moving towards the… some of the things that they dropped from Classic that… We're actually okay about navigation. 484 00:54:50.260 --> 00:54:53.909 Jen Bolmarcich: Just in terms of moving where the filters are and things like that, but… 485 00:54:55.420 --> 00:54:58.770 Nicole Trujillo: No, it was… I got a lot of comments about the filters. 486 00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:03.500 Nicole Trujillo: A lot of faculty being like, hey, what's up with this? 487 00:55:03.680 --> 00:55:10.799 Nicole Trujillo: No, that's a good point. Do you have any… do you remember the link? I don't even remember seeing the link data conversation. 488 00:55:11.080 --> 00:55:13.439 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah, I think it was… 489 00:55:14.460 --> 00:55:18.470 Jen Bolmarcich: I can forward you the, email. It was… 490 00:55:18.860 --> 00:55:24.060 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, I'll post that, because I remember something about the people pages, and… 491 00:55:24.060 --> 00:55:24.470 Jen Bolmarcich: I am not. 492 00:55:24.470 --> 00:55:28.870 Nicole Trujillo: thoughts about… we've been trying that out this fall, and I have thoughts about that. 493 00:55:34.650 --> 00:55:35.470 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah. 494 00:55:35.470 --> 00:55:45.090 Sarah Seestone: doing the agend that Tammy actually asked me about link data and to meet with Stanford folks about it, and I think I just dropped that email in that, you know. 495 00:55:45.270 --> 00:55:49.070 Jen Bolmarcich: I have too much going on right now. 496 00:55:57.450 --> 00:56:01.230 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): I also feel a bit guilty, we have testing. 497 00:56:02.560 --> 00:56:08.009 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): been able to testing this in folio, but we haven't had the time to do that. 498 00:56:10.320 --> 00:56:20.470 Nicole Trujillo: I'm also thinking, would this group be… I… I have to admit, I used to attend the Link Data Sig when they first began, and then I realized they were talking about building a folio app, and I was like, I'm not… 499 00:56:21.270 --> 00:56:27.459 Nicole Trujillo: I'll come back later. It might be interesting to hear from them maybe sometime this summer, to talk about 500 00:56:27.570 --> 00:56:29.670 Nicole Trujillo: the work they've done in that SIG. 501 00:56:30.120 --> 00:56:48.330 Nicole Trujillo: because I… when linked data is such a huge topic, right? It helps me when it starts getting narrowed down to, like, linked data, meaning metadata editing, versus linked data, like, in the authors' pages in EDS right now, where they're working from their, knowledge graph that they've built on the back end. 502 00:56:49.980 --> 00:57:06.640 Nicole Trujillo: Which is… and it doesn't really work well with our mark, which is why I'm thinking of the two. Like, how… how do we get it to work better with our… our metadata? You know, what metadata are they using, and how… how is it all linking? What is the actual technical components that they're using to link this data? 503 00:57:07.210 --> 00:57:07.880 Jen Bolmarcich: Yes. 504 00:57:11.170 --> 00:57:16.770 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, would somebody be willing to reach out to Tammy and just ask if… 505 00:57:16.890 --> 00:57:20.379 Nicole Trujillo: Anybody at EBSCO would like to come and maybe present on? 506 00:57:20.890 --> 00:57:23.799 Nicole Trujillo: The changes coming in summer. 507 00:57:24.400 --> 00:57:25.460 Nicole Trujillo: Alongside… 508 00:57:25.460 --> 00:57:26.200 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Come in. 509 00:57:26.200 --> 00:57:27.309 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, thanks, Marie. 510 00:57:31.380 --> 00:57:32.660 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Or someone else. 511 00:57:36.560 --> 00:57:39.440 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): I mean, maybe it's not Tammy, maybe it's someone else. 512 00:57:39.710 --> 00:57:40.410 Nicole Trujillo: Correct. 513 00:57:41.290 --> 00:57:44.859 Jen Bolmarcich: We're upgrading the sunflower in a week, so I'm kind of… 514 00:57:46.420 --> 00:57:47.450 Nicole Trujillo: Right there. 515 00:57:47.850 --> 00:57:50.849 Demian Katz: We're close, close behind you. 516 00:57:50.850 --> 00:57:52.970 Nicole Trujillo: Sunflower's coming! 517 00:57:52.970 --> 00:57:54.020 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): They're there. 518 00:57:54.570 --> 00:57:56.039 Nicole Trujillo: Yay! How's it been going? 519 00:57:56.370 --> 00:57:58.070 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Well, we have a request. 520 00:57:58.670 --> 00:57:59.400 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): bug. 521 00:57:59.530 --> 00:58:05.890 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Otherwise, fine. Lots of preparations, but after that, it was fine. 522 00:58:06.690 --> 00:58:12.340 Bernd Oberknapp: That's a migration from Okapi to Eureka, or is that… 523 00:58:12.340 --> 00:58:13.040 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): No. 524 00:58:13.670 --> 00:58:14.620 Bernd Oberknapp: Okay. 525 00:58:14.620 --> 00:58:15.150 Jen Bolmarcich: Yeah. 526 00:58:15.420 --> 00:58:15.969 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Okay. 527 00:58:16.070 --> 00:58:18.890 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): So, lots of roles with the roles. 528 00:58:20.520 --> 00:58:26.000 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Because we wanted to re… well, I wanted to make a fresh start. 529 00:58:26.680 --> 00:58:29.089 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): As much as possible, because we… 530 00:58:29.390 --> 00:58:34.910 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): It was quite a few years since we… since we started with the permissions, so they've been… 531 00:58:35.420 --> 00:58:40.589 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): They are messy. They wanted to start afresh, but they are nice to work with, so… 532 00:58:43.300 --> 00:58:44.079 Nicole Trujillo: Good to know. 533 00:58:44.080 --> 00:58:51.949 Sarah Seestone: was in two weeks, so now I'm, hmm, do we know about the request bug? We probably do, but it's a different group for me, so… 534 00:58:51.950 --> 00:58:56.569 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): It should be resolved in, service patch 6. 535 00:58:57.530 --> 00:59:03.249 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): So, if we had to know how we would be affected by it, we would probably have wanted to. 536 00:59:03.440 --> 00:59:04.310 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Wait. 537 00:59:06.260 --> 00:59:07.430 Sarah Seestone: Okay. 538 00:59:12.260 --> 00:59:16.810 Nicole Trujillo: I'm just making a note for myself, but I'm putting it on the agenda, just in case anyone else… 539 00:59:17.840 --> 00:59:20.159 Nicole Trujillo: As patch 6. 540 00:59:22.260 --> 00:59:34.239 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, well, we are at time. Thank you so much for all your comments today. Feel free, if there's anything I missed in the notes, to add it in there. And next meeting, we will workshop, 541 00:59:34.570 --> 00:59:36.829 Nicole Trujillo: our WolfCon presentation. 542 00:59:37.150 --> 00:59:38.480 Nicole Trujillo: That we may or may not do. 543 00:59:39.650 --> 00:59:40.350 Marie Widigson (Chalmers, Sweden): Sounds great. 544 00:59:40.350 --> 00:59:40.820 Jen Bolmarcich: Excellent. 545 00:59:41.590 --> 00:59:42.490 Nicole Trujillo: Bye, all. 546 00:59:42.760 --> 00:59:43.450 Demian Katz: Bye. 547 00:59:43.550 --> 00:59:44.730 Demian Katz: Thank you.