WEBVTT 1 00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:06.180 Jen Bolmarcich: Hello! 2 00:01:06.180 --> 00:01:08.910 Nicole Trujillo: Hello! Good morning! 3 00:01:16.060 --> 00:01:18.310 Nicole Trujillo: Can you hear me okay? 4 00:01:18.460 --> 00:01:20.209 Jen Bolmarcich: I can hear you fine. 5 00:01:20.210 --> 00:01:25.979 Nicole Trujillo: Great. Don't normally work at home on a Tuesday, but it's spring break week this week, and they're like. 6 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.429 Nicole Trujillo: You can come in, but this is gonna be under construction, and this. 7 00:01:29.430 --> 00:01:29.860 Jen Bolmarcich: Just go again. 8 00:01:29.860 --> 00:01:34.699 Nicole Trujillo: construction, your parking lot's not going to be available. I'm like, okay, maybe. 9 00:01:35.180 --> 00:01:37.449 Nicole Trujillo: Maybe that's not the best idea. 10 00:01:42.160 --> 00:01:46.630 Jen Bolmarcich: The spring rig for us, too, but we do not have any major construction happening, so… 11 00:01:50.090 --> 00:01:56.029 Nicole Trujillo: That's good. I mean, our… it is badly needed construction. I know you guys have a lot… 12 00:01:56.030 --> 00:01:56.720 Jen Bolmarcich: is. 13 00:01:56.720 --> 00:01:57.650 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah. 14 00:01:58.800 --> 00:02:00.789 Jen Bolmarcich: It's never done ahead of time. 15 00:02:03.610 --> 00:02:12.260 Nicole Trujillo: No, we just got a new, we redid our entire engineering library, so we're hopeful that that one doesn't fall apart anytime soon. 16 00:02:13.930 --> 00:02:17.970 Nicole Trujillo: I think that's the one that had the flood. We've had, like, flooding, fires… 17 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:23.400 Nicole Trujillo: we had, like, a chair spontaneously catch on fire since I've been here. It's… 18 00:02:23.810 --> 00:02:24.550 Jen Bolmarcich: Wow. 19 00:02:24.550 --> 00:02:28.619 Nicole Trujillo: I'm just happy… I'm happy I'm not building management, because it seems like a lot. 20 00:02:28.770 --> 00:02:30.270 Nicole Trujillo: A lot to deal with. 21 00:02:32.380 --> 00:02:35.380 Maccabee Levine: When are we gonna have WolfCon in Colorado? I would love that. 22 00:02:35.480 --> 00:02:49.570 Nicole Trujillo: But in… yes, me too, right? It'd be so easy, to get to. Yeah, and Denver is so central to the United States. It's a big airport, lots of planes fly. 23 00:02:50.260 --> 00:03:00.609 Nicole Trujillo: We'll see, we'll see. We… I know Boulder itself has been building a bunch of, like, conference centers and hotels, and then we got Sundance recently, so that should… 24 00:03:00.750 --> 00:03:06.759 Nicole Trujillo: Increase some of that hotel building as well, to give us better capacity for large events. 25 00:03:14.720 --> 00:03:23.029 Nicole Trujillo: We're also in the midst of getting a new library's dean, so we'll… we'll see. That could be… play a major role in getting Folio to come here. 26 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:28.270 Maccabee Levine: You can make it happen, Nicole. I believe in you. 27 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:37.140 Nicole Trujillo: Maybe. Claire… Claire, my colleague, is pretty involved, too, so maybe us together, we can… 28 00:03:38.100 --> 00:03:46.239 Nicole Trujillo: put some notes in some people's ears and be like, hey, it'd be really cool if we could do it right here. We love it when conferences are right here. 29 00:03:52.110 --> 00:03:57.330 Nicole Trujillo: All right, just waiting for a few other… I only had one person tell me they couldn't come today, Sarah. 30 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:01.010 Nicole Trujillo: So… We'll see. 31 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:06.469 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I hope everybody in Europe, thought about the time difference. 32 00:04:07.190 --> 00:04:09.119 Nicole Trujillo: Oh, yeah, that might be it. 33 00:04:10.670 --> 00:04:13.320 Nicole Trujillo: I didn't even think to warn people. 34 00:04:14.170 --> 00:04:29.039 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I just joined the meeting at… exactly at 3 o'clock local time, and there was nobody but me, and I was really confused, because I thought, now I… I did get it wrong, but after double-checking, the time was correct. 35 00:04:30.540 --> 00:04:36.949 Nicole Trujillo: So, yes, that might very… that actually might very well be the case, is that we'll have a few people today who just… 36 00:04:37.660 --> 00:04:42.079 Nicole Trujillo: Our… it's that weird time of year where our times are not synced. 37 00:04:57.350 --> 00:04:58.780 Nicole Trujillo: What happens? 38 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:04.369 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, yeah, so that is not until the last Sunday of March. 39 00:05:15.500 --> 00:05:21.000 Nicole Trujillo: All right, and I… Damien… he did say he was going to come, and he's United States, so he has no excuses. 40 00:05:21.150 --> 00:05:27.270 Nicole Trujillo: So, we'll see. He might have gotten called into something else, but we did plan today, 41 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:32.509 Nicole Trujillo: Just to kind of workshop WolfCon 2026. Oh, there he is. 42 00:05:33.270 --> 00:05:35.599 Nicole Trujillo: And so I wanted to… 43 00:05:37.580 --> 00:05:42.860 Nicole Trujillo: to do that, I put a bunch of, like, resources up, I started thinking about it, like, 44 00:05:45.060 --> 00:05:49.659 Nicole Trujillo: And kind of, I think the main decision is, do we want to do this, or we might… 45 00:05:49.850 --> 00:05:53.259 Nicole Trujillo: No worries, Damien. Or we might, like… 46 00:05:54.310 --> 00:06:03.230 Nicole Trujillo: Decide, hey, actually, what we have on our community's dashboard and the work we're currently doing is the highest priority work, and we don't think we're going to get enough 47 00:06:03.400 --> 00:06:11.650 Nicole Trujillo: we don't really have enough guidance of what we want out of this workshop to submit. So that's a decision, too. We don't have to do a workshop. But I just… 48 00:06:11.860 --> 00:06:24.810 Nicole Trujillo: it'd be good to discuss to see what needs are still out there, or what needs are areas we're still, like, we don't know, we don't… we've heard other people talk about this, but we really don't know what the need is. And those would be prime areas to, like. 49 00:06:25.050 --> 00:06:31.539 Nicole Trujillo: Build a conversation or a presentation around to get some feedback and some input as to 50 00:06:32.290 --> 00:06:35.700 Nicole Trujillo: Areas we might not be working on currently that we should be. 51 00:06:36.340 --> 00:06:46.009 Nicole Trujillo: So, first, updates… I do have a link data and discovery meeting scheduled on April 10th. 52 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:53.520 Nicole Trujillo: That is with the link data 6, so that's on a Friday, and that's 10 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. 53 00:06:53.850 --> 00:07:04.819 Nicole Trujillo: So… that's exciting. They're… they seem excited. So Damien, I did ask, because I know you can only make the first part, to maybe go into some of the viewfind… 54 00:07:07.090 --> 00:07:08.320 Nicole Trujillo: Actually, it's… 55 00:07:08.320 --> 00:07:18.040 Demian Katz: Unfortunately, I just looked at my calendar, and I'm at a conference on the 10th, so I won't be able to attend on that date, and I don't know how I missed that. I'm sorry. 56 00:07:18.280 --> 00:07:24.020 Nicole Trujillo: No, that's fine. Do you want me to try and get a different date? Because… You're kind of important. 57 00:07:25.870 --> 00:07:28.449 Demian Katz: Let's see, 58 00:07:34.780 --> 00:07:42.620 Demian Katz: I am certainly happy to try to join anytime that I'm able to join. My calendar is just a bit of a nightmare. 59 00:07:43.060 --> 00:07:46.170 Demian Katz: But yeah, I think… 60 00:07:47.420 --> 00:08:04.159 Demian Katz: The 17th or the 24th are both available if Fridays are best, though the 10 to 11 hour tends to be problematic because of the WolfCon planning meetings, as well as reshare meetings. 61 00:08:05.570 --> 00:08:07.879 Demian Katz: So much OLF stuff. 62 00:08:07.880 --> 00:08:09.330 Nicole Trujillo: So much! 63 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:13.650 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, I mean, we could still have it the 10th. I just… 64 00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:16.799 Nicole Trujillo: It'd be nice to have, like, someone who's on… 65 00:08:17.330 --> 00:08:23.050 Nicole Trujillo: kind of the discovery side, who sees some kind of the roadmap things and planning things of what 66 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:27.730 Nicole Trujillo: That has that technical background as well, right, to kind of talk about. 67 00:08:30.570 --> 00:08:40.230 Nicole Trujillo: things you've done, or things that the viewfind community has done in this area, and the viewfind community has done a lot of, like, interesting things in this area, so… 68 00:08:41.390 --> 00:08:42.199 Nicole Trujillo: Do you know anyone. 69 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:46.849 Demian Katz: Be helpful to have, like, a one-on-one meeting 70 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:52.810 Demian Katz: Ahead of the April 10th meeting, I'd certainly be happy to chat and fill you in. 71 00:08:52.890 --> 00:08:59.920 Demian Katz: I mean, honestly, very little has happened in the last decade. Most of what's in Viewfind is stuff that was done 72 00:08:59.940 --> 00:09:19.920 Demian Katz: absolutely ages ago, and it's still there and still works, but hasn't gotten a whole lot of attention, so I don't feel like I have a lot of exciting news to share. I just have interest in seeing this given more attention, but no time to give it that attention myself, which is why we are where we are. 73 00:09:19.920 --> 00:09:28.870 Demian Katz: And I don't know… I think Maccabee might have some interest in some of this too, even if just at the same abstract level that I do. 74 00:09:30.930 --> 00:09:35.740 Maccabee Levine: I… I definitely am, exactly as Damien said, interested in this 75 00:09:35.810 --> 00:09:49.490 Maccabee Levine: at the same abstract level. You know, it's… it's… there's this… there's this perpetual tug of war with linked data about the theory and the practice, and like, you know, production use cases versus what might be, and all that. 76 00:09:49.490 --> 00:09:59.180 Maccabee Levine: And I would love to build some more functionality into BeFind as soon as we figure out practically what that should be, and have the bibliographic systems 77 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:09.129 Maccabee Levine: you know, just to support it. At Lehigh, we did some partnerships with ShareVDE. We're having some early research into BlueCore. I mean, there's so many interesting things that we could be doing. 78 00:10:09.170 --> 00:10:17.150 Maccabee Levine: With linked data, but we haven't settled on something and picked it and said, this is what we're going to do, and therefore, this is what we should look at on the discovery side. 79 00:10:17.270 --> 00:10:19.849 Maccabee Levine: In any, in any production context. 80 00:10:22.050 --> 00:10:23.500 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, and I… 81 00:10:23.800 --> 00:10:34.219 Nicole Trujillo: I think one of the things I am looking forward to is just, like, a technical discussion on how we even define linked data and discovery, because it, like, from my perspective. 82 00:10:34.470 --> 00:10:40.050 Nicole Trujillo: As someone who, like, works with the systems, but I don't do any of the coding, I… 83 00:10:40.140 --> 00:10:50.060 Nicole Trujillo: like, I think of… we have the Hathae Trust integration with ViewFind, which is a little button on certain records that says Hathi Trust and takes you to the full text that is in Hathi Trust. 84 00:10:50.060 --> 00:11:00.740 Nicole Trujillo: on, some book records. And, like, to me, that is linked data, right? Like, you're identifying, and I… there's an identifier in that record. You're using that identifier with an external source 85 00:11:00.740 --> 00:11:03.319 Nicole Trujillo: To determine what's going to show to the user. 86 00:11:03.340 --> 00:11:20.750 Nicole Trujillo: So that's one form of linked data, though. There's, like, many forms. And so, I think, for me, one of the hardest things about the linked data discussion is even defining what it is, and pointing to specific features, and talking about the technical aspect of how they actually work. 87 00:11:20.930 --> 00:11:23.439 Nicole Trujillo: I'm kind of hoping that this meeting 88 00:11:24.330 --> 00:11:27.270 Nicole Trujillo: Centers a little bit more on, because a lot of the times. 89 00:11:27.280 --> 00:11:46.590 Nicole Trujillo: some of it's just so big in scope. Like, a lot of the presentations I've seen are about the author pages, where you might… you'll have an author in the Mark Urkhardt or the bibliographic record, doesn't have to be Mark. You'll have an identifier next to that author. That identifier will connect to a store such as Wikidata, or another, 90 00:11:46.890 --> 00:11:54.930 Nicole Trujillo: Data source of author identifiers, and use that to pull in information from external sources about that author, for example. 91 00:11:55.460 --> 00:12:11.020 Nicole Trujillo: And then in EBSCO's authors pages, they're also doing something else where they're using, a kind of a knowledge graph that they've built behind the scenes and that they're trying to work on to pull in related resources. Again, by, using identifiers 92 00:12:11.020 --> 00:12:18.250 Nicole Trujillo: But in a different way in that aspect, because it's the… there's a knowledge graph that's been crafted on the back end. It's not a pure, like. 93 00:12:18.410 --> 00:12:22.170 Nicole Trujillo: identifier to identify a relationship. So, I think… 94 00:12:22.970 --> 00:12:35.150 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, like, is one of those things I just described, linked data and the other not, or is everyone on the same page as me? And like, yeah, actually, those are all examples of a linked data discovery integration. 95 00:12:35.750 --> 00:12:53.310 Demian Katz: Well, I think it really depends on whether you're talking about linked data conceptually or linked data as a specific kind of technology stack. So, I think there are some who are going to say, it's not linked data unless you're using RDF and you're storing things in a graph, and you're querying the graph to get your information. 96 00:12:53.310 --> 00:13:11.560 Demian Katz: You know, that's sort of the strict technical way, and then there's also, as you say, just the idea of, like, linked data principles can be applied very broadly of using common identifiers to connect information together. And I think from a pragmatic perspective, the broader approach is more useful. 97 00:13:11.560 --> 00:13:12.909 Demian Katz: And… 98 00:13:12.910 --> 00:13:21.750 Demian Katz: But, you know, the linked data technical stack is a way of solving certain kinds of problems that are harder to solve in other ways. But from 99 00:13:21.750 --> 00:13:38.350 Demian Katz: my perspective in Viewfind, I don't care what the underlying technology is, I want to decide on the patterns of how we want to expose information so that we can build connectors that can use whatever is available to populate those parts of the interface. 100 00:13:38.350 --> 00:13:44.320 Demian Katz: that might be linked data. It might be an API that sits in front of a linked data system, but makes 101 00:13:44.360 --> 00:14:01.949 Demian Katz: the technical implementation more opaque or whatever. Certainly, the stuff that we currently have, like our Wikipedia integration, the Hobby Trust previews, things like that, none of those are really designed in a linked data-y way, but they are achieving, as you say, linked data type goals. 102 00:14:01.950 --> 00:14:10.669 Demian Katz: And in some cases, we might be able to replace those old implementations with something that's a little more linked data pure that would do a better job. 103 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:15.069 Demian Katz: If we just, you know, had the APIs and the time. 104 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:30.769 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, see, and this is why I want you at the meeting, because you could say exactly that last part of, like, this is what we have, it's old, I don't like it, this is what I want to move this type of thing towards, because that is the stuff I don't know, like, I would love to know more. 105 00:14:31.140 --> 00:14:32.090 Nicole Trujillo: with pictures. 106 00:14:34.820 --> 00:14:44.009 Maccabee Levine: Yeah, Damien should definitely be at that meeting, but I'll just say again, I agree with that philosophy. It's, you know, ViewFind, for a decade, has been able to, like. 107 00:14:44.460 --> 00:14:54.469 Maccabee Levine: pull author information from Wikipedia. And it kind of works like crap, because it gets the wrong person, you know, who happens to have the same name. But it's been there for, you know, for years, right? 108 00:14:54.470 --> 00:15:01.239 Maccabee Levine: So it's about figuring out… sorry, no one wants to watch me on the treadmill, that's why I had my camera off. But, you know, it's… it's… 109 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:18.359 Maccabee Levine: It's a matter of what you actually want to do with it. What are the UI concepts? Because so many of these linked data discussions at WolfCon are about the metadata. And who cares about the metadata? Sorry, catalogers, I love you all, but the point of it is to serve a need, right? So what is the need? And everybody talks about author pages. Yeah, that's great. Okay, good, that's one. 110 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:24.459 Maccabee Levine: you know, but… but let's… let's talk about the UI concepts and the UI patterns of… of what 111 00:15:24.470 --> 00:15:41.870 Maccabee Levine: what the features we actually want are, and then figure out whether the best mechanism is, you know, pure Bibframe-style link data, or stick a URI into a MARC record somewhere, or do things with AI that are dumber than that, but sometimes get you the right answer. You know, lots of ways to achieve it. 112 00:15:43.760 --> 00:15:44.320 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah. 113 00:15:44.560 --> 00:15:50.390 Nicole Trujillo: And, I mean, the treadmill is also encouraging. I'm like, yes, walking, I should do that sometime in my life. 114 00:15:51.620 --> 00:15:55.449 Maccabee Levine: Yeah, but you'll all get a headache if I keep my camera on, so, you know. 115 00:15:55.450 --> 00:16:02.180 Nicole Trujillo: Understood, understood. Okay, so what I'll do, Damien, is I might reach out to the convener and kind of 116 00:16:02.430 --> 00:16:10.280 Nicole Trujillo: you guys directly, just to… to say, hey, let's… let's try another date, and then I think they have another… they also do a Tuesday meeting. 117 00:16:10.650 --> 00:16:14.910 Nicole Trujillo: It's later in the evening, so that's why I was, like, shooting for Friday, so… 118 00:16:15.150 --> 00:16:17.139 Nicole Trujillo: More… more people could… 119 00:16:18.380 --> 00:16:28.600 Nicole Trujillo: join that, but yeah, we can figure out something, and that… because I do want to start off the discussion, kind of, with, what Maccabee was just saying about, like. 120 00:16:29.090 --> 00:16:34.630 Nicole Trujillo: Here's what we're doing, technically speaking, that could be replaced with 121 00:16:34.830 --> 00:16:39.970 Nicole Trujillo: With this techno… you know, like, to talk about it from a technology stack standpoint, and from, 122 00:16:40.770 --> 00:16:53.450 Nicole Trujillo: user, like, what do they want to see standpoint? Because when I also, when I think about linked data, I also think about, like, the three realms, right? There's the metadata creation, the indexing, and then the… 123 00:16:53.640 --> 00:16:57.750 Nicole Trujillo: putting it into the discovery service, and I know, like, all of those have, like, sub… 124 00:16:57.820 --> 00:17:00.429 Nicole Trujillo: sections as well. But, like. 125 00:17:00.430 --> 00:17:10.669 Nicole Trujillo: McAbee with metadata creation is where I've seen a lot of the conversation happening, right? Like, and that's really important, and lots of great stuff can be done there, but I think our group 126 00:17:10.670 --> 00:17:21.630 Nicole Trujillo: Really wants to go to that third one of, like, okay, you know, that stuff can fit very well into our current structure without any extra coding, really. 127 00:17:22.020 --> 00:17:25.290 Nicole Trujillo: But what about the things that don't? 128 00:17:25.490 --> 00:17:28.780 Nicole Trujillo: So, what are those things? Can we, you know. 129 00:17:29.150 --> 00:17:31.920 Nicole Trujillo: how are the author pages performing? 130 00:17:32.990 --> 00:17:39.770 Nicole Trujillo: what are, like, those Wikipedia pages, we're actually getting, sadly, rid of our Wikipedia integration and viewfind, just because it was… 131 00:17:39.940 --> 00:17:57.479 Nicole Trujillo: is to become someone reliable, and there's a lot of, like, professors who are like, that's not me! I was searching for… you know, it's a bad look. So, we're… we're hoping that something better comes along for that, you know, so that could be a great discussion, too, of how could we replace the Wikipedia with 132 00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:00.910 Nicole Trujillo: A link… better linked data infrastructure. 133 00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:06.569 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, great. Thank you for your thoughts on that, and I will… 134 00:18:07.750 --> 00:18:09.880 Nicole Trujillo: I will adjust that date so we can… 135 00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:12.580 Demian Katz: Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry about that. 136 00:18:12.580 --> 00:18:14.300 Nicole Trujillo: No worries, no worries. 137 00:18:14.520 --> 00:18:16.820 Nicole Trujillo: You are on a lot of meetings. 138 00:18:18.320 --> 00:18:35.619 Nicole Trujillo: Her other… let's see… I did reach out to Kalela about the UX Prod2422 and 2758, so, we left off on, like, just a clarification of… she's like, well, what do you really want? And we talked about that place a hold… 139 00:18:36.310 --> 00:18:50.890 Nicole Trujillo: shown, or in the request, you know, the buttons being there are not there, and having that flag in the system that lets the discovery system either show it or not show it based on a lot of very complicated, sometimes, circulation rules. 140 00:18:51.320 --> 00:18:55.070 Nicole Trujillo: So, that's where that conversation left off. 141 00:18:55.790 --> 00:18:58.119 Nicole Trujillo: And then Marie reached out. 142 00:18:58.690 --> 00:19:14.569 Nicole Trujillo: to EBSCO, so Tammy is no longer with EBSCO, but they are going to… they do want to do a meeting with us at some point. We're still deciding the date to talk about some of the upcoming features that are being developed. 143 00:19:17.700 --> 00:19:19.909 Nicole Trujillo: So those are my updates. Any other updates? 144 00:19:25.830 --> 00:19:32.489 Nicole Trujillo: All right, should we move on to… The workshop. 145 00:19:41.830 --> 00:19:46.529 Nicole Trujillo: So I will put it in the chat, just kind of the… Google Doc. 146 00:19:53.610 --> 00:20:07.409 Nicole Trujillo: And I… I put a lot of, like, discovery priorities, because in here, not… not that they should be included in any formal proposal, but because when I was trying to think about this, I'm like, well, me, thinking about my position and my role. 147 00:20:07.410 --> 00:20:20.149 Nicole Trujillo: like, what are my priorities to try and move these systems through? And do… and then the hard part, of course, that I'm trying not to think of is, like, and how do they relate to Folio APIs, right? Like, because… 148 00:20:20.650 --> 00:20:36.870 Nicole Trujillo: I'm wondering, if many of what I want improved or done, for the discovery systems are actually not fully related, right? They are things that could perfectly well be done, they just haven't been done yet. 149 00:20:37.330 --> 00:20:39.850 Nicole Trujillo: so, yeah. 150 00:20:39.980 --> 00:20:44.899 Nicole Trujillo: Has anyone had any time to kind of look through any of the old documentation to see? 151 00:20:48.990 --> 00:20:51.530 Nicole Trujillo: Like, the 2023 survey. 152 00:20:51.700 --> 00:20:55.360 Nicole Trujillo: Where we kind of had that highlight about… 153 00:20:56.420 --> 00:21:00.089 Nicole Trujillo: The five… what is it, 5 things that we wanted fixed. 154 00:21:00.690 --> 00:21:06.810 Nicole Trujillo: And the number one thing was that, the holdings… display. 155 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:14.140 Nicole Trujillo: Especially thinking about that RTAC poll. 156 00:21:16.410 --> 00:21:26.130 Nicole Trujillo: And… That has definitely developed in the system since we've done this survey. 157 00:21:27.820 --> 00:21:33.560 Nicole Trujillo: I mean, for me, it's still not working in EDS, because of reasons, but… 158 00:21:42.710 --> 00:21:52.879 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I haven't looked through the whole documents, but I seem to remember that most of the pain points actually affected EDS. 159 00:21:53.730 --> 00:21:55.780 Bernd Oberknapp: But not the other interfaces. 160 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:07.710 Bernd Oberknapp: So that makes it a bit difficult, because if it's just about the improvements on the EDS side, 161 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.449 Bernd Oberknapp: I'm not sure we are the ones who should talk about that. 162 00:22:11.910 --> 00:22:15.319 Bernd Oberknapp: That's probably… better done by EBSCO. 163 00:22:21.740 --> 00:22:28.789 Bernd Oberknapp: And the ones we had for, viewfind, I think, are still the main priorities we have in 164 00:22:28.930 --> 00:22:32.510 Bernd Oberknapp: We are still working on, so… 165 00:22:34.670 --> 00:22:48.420 Bernd Oberknapp: Regarding viewpoint… ViewFind, of course, has improved significantly how it interacts with folio since that time, but the main points we had, the main pain points, are still there, I think. 166 00:22:49.650 --> 00:22:54.389 Bernd Oberknapp: PuFind has workarounds for that, but… or in some cases. 167 00:22:54.800 --> 00:23:02.040 Bernd Oberknapp: But, yeah, the idea was actually to improve the API, and that hasn't really happened. 168 00:23:02.470 --> 00:23:05.089 Bernd Oberknapp: At least not in the main areas. 169 00:23:09.710 --> 00:23:24.359 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, I was looking, at the community's dashboard right before this meeting begun, and exactly what you're saying is here, a lot of the viewfind, specifically, things we were concerned about are in this community dashboard, like the… 170 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:29.600 Nicole Trujillo: batch renewal, right? Improving the API for that, still number one. 171 00:23:30.910 --> 00:23:34.049 Nicole Trujillo: The holdable and renewable flags. 172 00:23:34.790 --> 00:23:40.819 Nicole Trujillo: 2 and 3, and then that ability to sort, not on the fly. 173 00:23:41.120 --> 00:23:42.750 Nicole Trujillo: also there. 174 00:23:45.050 --> 00:23:55.540 Nicole Trujillo: And that one looks like it's gotten the most traction, actually, of our four priorities. And then we've just been struggling to get those other three out of draft, even. 175 00:23:55.890 --> 00:24:02.120 Nicole Trujillo: you know… And those are pretty big ones. 176 00:24:06.180 --> 00:24:12.999 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, and the other ones, these, holdings, items, theory, multi-volume sorting, that's, 177 00:24:13.180 --> 00:24:17.510 Bernd Oberknapp: I'm not sure how much that is actually related to folio. 178 00:24:18.280 --> 00:24:22.429 Bernd Oberknapp: Or if that's something that has to do with indexing? 179 00:24:22.610 --> 00:24:30.600 Bernd Oberknapp: For example, we have solved some of these problems by creating a… or adding custom fields for the index, and using them for… 180 00:24:30.730 --> 00:24:37.380 Bernd Oberknapp: Doing that stuff, so, this is, at least for us, nothing to do with folio. 181 00:24:38.690 --> 00:24:41.989 Bernd Oberknapp: If you get that information from folio, okay, that's different. 182 00:24:42.650 --> 00:24:44.859 Bernd Oberknapp: But if you get that from your index. 183 00:24:46.090 --> 00:24:49.460 Bernd Oberknapp: Then, folio doesn't really play a role here. 184 00:24:52.020 --> 00:24:57.170 Nicole Trujillo: I think that for… that's, the art tactical sword, right? 185 00:25:00.080 --> 00:25:08.470 Demian Katz: Yeah, I think we're talking about item-level information, which is not indexed Typically, at least. 186 00:25:15.690 --> 00:25:26.160 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, and it's… I'm also… I haven't been following, but I know, MetadataSig was working on a folio feature to manually sort items, right, within… 187 00:25:26.580 --> 00:25:31.030 Nicole Trujillo: portfolio, and once that's developed, I'm thinking the idea is that 188 00:25:31.580 --> 00:25:34.189 Nicole Trujillo: Our tech poll respects that order. 189 00:25:36.060 --> 00:25:53.729 Nicole Trujillo: and so it'd have to do a couple things. It'd have to recognize that there has been a manual order reset, and this order is somehow flagged as the discovery reset, to stop it from overlaying with the discovery order, which is taking place, because the folio order does not… 190 00:25:53.790 --> 00:26:05.930 Nicole Trujillo: follow human logic, right? It follows the folio logic, but when you're looking at it, like, if I… I just looked at my economist, and, like, nothing is in order. Like, you got 1971, followed by 1985, 191 00:26:06.050 --> 00:26:11.399 Nicole Trujillo: Like, it just… there's no… rhyme or reason there. So it's… it's still… 192 00:26:12.250 --> 00:26:17.809 Nicole Trujillo: not happening for us in that RTAC poll. And so, we have been really happy to see 193 00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:25.909 Nicole Trujillo: progress going on there. Even though on the viewfind side, of course, we've We're doing the workaround of… 194 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:28.290 Nicole Trujillo: Being able to order items and that. 195 00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:30.100 Nicole Trujillo: System. 196 00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:50.849 Demian Katz: I guess the bottom line, though, is this does really, 197 00:26:51.470 --> 00:26:58.650 Demian Katz: Highlight how difficult it is to figure out, at a glance, where a problem actually lives. 198 00:27:03.700 --> 00:27:12.360 Demian Katz: just looking at the CU Boulder discovery priorities, your viewfind things. Like, again, there are several things there that probably… 199 00:27:12.470 --> 00:27:18.060 Demian Katz: Don't really have anything to do with folio, though we could find ways to solve them. 200 00:27:19.820 --> 00:27:28.009 Demian Katz: But if we wanted to have a conversation specifically about folio issues, it would take a bit of digging to figure out which of these actually are folio issues. 201 00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:29.020 Nicole Trujillo: Right. 202 00:27:31.170 --> 00:27:38.719 Nicole Trujillo: Right, which is why a lot of my concentration in the viewfind community has been on looking at the folio driver, right, and what. 203 00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:39.190 Demian Katz: development. 204 00:27:39.190 --> 00:27:42.419 Nicole Trujillo: are going on there, like the recently added. 205 00:27:44.020 --> 00:27:51.790 Nicole Trujillo: which you have, and they told us we can't have… like, I, you know, there's so many questions about where does this lie, and how do we get it, and… 206 00:27:54.100 --> 00:28:06.339 Nicole Trujillo: that's why we could have a workshop that's just about, like… it's not actually about full… it's just, what are your biggest pain points in discovery right now? Where is the community with… 207 00:28:06.870 --> 00:28:08.470 Nicole Trujillo: those struggles. 208 00:28:08.830 --> 00:28:25.119 Nicole Trujillo: Which is an interesting conversation in its own right, like, because different communities have different priorities, and I always personally like learning why, like, in, you know, Spokane, they care about this particular one, because they're a public library, and they're dealing with different patrons, and… 209 00:28:25.370 --> 00:28:45.329 Nicole Trujillo: We also, like, we have a lot of really complicated bound widths that break the system, so, like… but we understand that not everybody has really complicated bound widths. Like, in the cereals things as well, like, we have a lot of really complex cereals, not everybody has really complex cereals, so… 210 00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:50.789 Nicole Trujillo: That might be one way to approach it, but I don't know… 211 00:28:52.220 --> 00:28:59.159 Nicole Trujillo: both UFind and EBSCO and Blacklight have their own conferences to really talk about these things. 212 00:29:03.110 --> 00:29:12.970 Demian Katz: Well, and I think there's also, you know, the whole sorting thing is an interesting example of how you can solve a problem in different ways with different trade-offs, because 213 00:29:13.180 --> 00:29:14.110 Demian Katz: you know. 214 00:29:14.580 --> 00:29:31.359 Demian Katz: some might prefer to see a human-readable sort implemented natively in folio, rather than having to manually number all of their items in order to put them in the right order, but certainly manual numbering gives you the greatest degree of control. 215 00:29:31.530 --> 00:29:47.150 Demian Katz: But then it comes down to, as you say, then you also have to keep track of, you know, which things are manually numbered so that that sort should come into play. Do we need to just number everything? Are we then, you know, manually rearranging every item record in our, you know, all 216 00:29:47.560 --> 00:29:50.100 Demian Katz: 8 million, or whatever. 217 00:29:50.230 --> 00:29:56.000 Demian Katz: You know, it becomes a logistical management problem, as well as a technical one. 218 00:29:58.050 --> 00:30:08.180 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, and that's… that's another area we could, like, instead of having it be a broader workshop, just take one of our community priorities and workshop that, like, if we want to talk about… 219 00:30:09.310 --> 00:30:26.259 Nicole Trujillo: this sort. I think that would take more, like, we'd want to get a product owner with us, and, like, some very specific questions, and some… maybe a panel people to present on their perspectives of this particular issue, and have, like, the goal of adding extra stuff to that JIRA, and really… 220 00:30:26.630 --> 00:30:29.670 Nicole Trujillo: Advocating for its movement in the community. 221 00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:44.060 Demian Katz: Well, that absolutely continues to be our greatest challenge, is that we have no power to actually make any implementation happen, or, you know, we're getting closer to being more influential, I think, but we still don't really… 222 00:30:44.490 --> 00:30:48.369 Demian Katz: have say in much of anything. We can just ask. 223 00:30:48.470 --> 00:30:58.480 Demian Katz: And yeah, it would be a more interesting conversation if we had people in the room who were closer to that part of the puzzle and could say more about it. 224 00:31:02.560 --> 00:31:12.849 Maccabee Levine: just a thought, but Koha is technically part of WolfCon now, also. I wonder if there's a perspective from that area, like, if some of these problems 225 00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:19.410 Maccabee Levine: Are solved differently or better there, and it could be a session, you know, on sort of how, 226 00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:27.909 Maccabee Levine: how a different open source ILS versus Folio deals with some of these challenges. I don't know what the answer to that would be, whether it would be constructive, but it can help with the 227 00:31:28.040 --> 00:31:33.299 Maccabee Levine: Embarrassment factor? Like, come on, Falio, let's get going. 228 00:31:34.630 --> 00:31:52.259 Demian Katz: I think that would be interesting, but I also don't know how much COHA participation we're realistically getting in WolfCon, because I think they still have their own conference, which is well-established, that people go to, so I at least haven't seen a lot of Coha proposals coming through for WolfCon. 229 00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:58.080 Demian Katz: But if we could get those people in the room, I like the idea. I just don't know if they'll be there. 230 00:31:58.080 --> 00:31:59.959 Maccabee Levine: Right, no, that's true. I, I… 231 00:32:00.620 --> 00:32:13.229 Maccabee Levine: That's absolutely true. I'm just wondering about the question. I mean, I know people can use Koha with ViewFind, for example. There might be someone out there coming to WolfCon because of ViewFind, and not because of Koha, you know, but you know what I mean. 232 00:32:13.550 --> 00:32:14.200 Demian Katz: Yep. 233 00:32:18.740 --> 00:32:30.110 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, and now that my mind is still on the cereals part, I'm like, yeah, if we could get some from Koha to talk about serials and COHA, and how that functions, and which solutions they picked, and why. 234 00:32:31.550 --> 00:32:33.379 Nicole Trujillo: That'd be really cool. 235 00:32:56.040 --> 00:32:58.910 Nicole Trujillo: But yeah, does anyone else have thoughts about, like. 236 00:33:01.840 --> 00:33:05.010 Nicole Trujillo: That strategy of, like, centering on one of the communities. 237 00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:11.620 Nicole Trujillo: The community dashboard priorities, like, using WolfCon as a way to try to advance. 238 00:33:12.340 --> 00:33:19.429 Nicole Trujillo: one of these JARAs within the community, or are we still more interested in kind of more of an open-ended discussion? 239 00:33:21.420 --> 00:33:29.069 Nicole Trujillo: Towards identifying, like, If pain points need to be… if there's new stuff that… 240 00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:31.960 Nicole Trujillo: Needs to be taken into consideration. 241 00:33:37.850 --> 00:33:45.539 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I, I think… Just trying to advance the, top priorities. 242 00:33:46.420 --> 00:33:48.760 Bernd Oberknapp: That would be too specific. 243 00:33:49.630 --> 00:33:50.900 Bernd Oberknapp: wove, wolf, Colin. 244 00:33:51.660 --> 00:33:52.660 Bernd Oberknapp: session. 245 00:33:52.930 --> 00:33:54.140 Bernd Oberknapp: In my opinion. 246 00:33:55.820 --> 00:33:59.870 Bernd Oberknapp: I would find that difficult to sell to people to come to that. 247 00:34:00.590 --> 00:34:02.590 Bernd Oberknapp: Session. 248 00:34:05.330 --> 00:34:12.910 Nicole Trujillo: Though you would think more of, like, The broader, hey, these… These are where we're at. 249 00:34:13.370 --> 00:34:28.399 Nicole Trujillo: even if they're the… because I'm looking at Chalmers as well, like, and those are the same, like, they're the same as our community priorities, they're the same top priorities identified in the 2023 survey. Like, it's not that no work has been done, it's just that 250 00:34:31.699 --> 00:34:34.929 Nicole Trujillo: There's… there's still a lot of work to be done. 251 00:34:41.330 --> 00:34:45.370 Bernd Oberknapp: And part of that is, again, very EDA-specific. 252 00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:54.559 Nicole Trujillo: But it isn't, because… we have the same problems with ViewFind for renewals, and… 253 00:34:55.139 --> 00:35:02.559 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, okay, for requests and renewals, but the other stuff, like the problems with the EBSCOhost or folio account. 254 00:35:03.029 --> 00:35:11.449 Bernd Oberknapp: That's… That seems… Well, maybe it's not really EDI-specific. 255 00:35:15.229 --> 00:35:23.499 Bernd Oberknapp: But the question is if that problem is even exposed, so all users wouldn't know anything about a folio account. 256 00:35:24.809 --> 00:35:35.409 Bernd Oberknapp: they would only know about their university account, which they use to sign into via ShibuLab, into Viewfind, and this is automatically mapped to their 257 00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:41.149 Bernd Oberknapp: patron account in Fodio, and they never see anything about that. 258 00:35:44.730 --> 00:35:48.500 Nicole Trujillo: Correct. I think it… yeah, with accounts, too, it's… 259 00:35:49.300 --> 00:35:54.119 Nicole Trujillo: Is… we're not… like, there's a lot of things we don't want our users to know, like, 260 00:35:55.090 --> 00:36:02.570 Nicole Trujillo: there's a preferred pickup location, right? Service point and folio, and in Viewfind, you can set your preferred pickup location, and… 261 00:36:04.110 --> 00:36:06.000 Nicole Trujillo: I actually don't know how those two… 262 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:16.640 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, but only the one in Viewfind is relevant to the user. Right. If there is no one, then they will use the preferred one, I think, from Folio, but they can overwrite that. 263 00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:24.340 Bernd Oberknapp: So this is not really… this might be more tricky for staff that are looking at, at, 264 00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:31.320 Bernd Oberknapp: the, settings in folio, and they don't know anything about the setting in Viewpoint. 265 00:36:31.520 --> 00:36:36.940 Bernd Oberknapp: So that's not really for the user problem, but maybe for staff. 266 00:36:39.340 --> 00:36:39.990 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah. 267 00:36:42.810 --> 00:36:46.869 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, it goes back to that, like, where is the problem exactly? 268 00:36:46.870 --> 00:36:55.429 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, if that even is a problem, I was wondering why UFind isn't writing that information back to folio. 269 00:36:55.770 --> 00:37:02.110 Bernd Oberknapp: to change the… Preferred… value, simply. 270 00:37:15.220 --> 00:37:19.609 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, I would imagine it's, like, a security… I don't know how much… 271 00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:24.129 Nicole Trujillo: The discovery systems really want you changing 272 00:37:24.490 --> 00:37:29.059 Nicole Trujillo: like, the person information in the folio system. 273 00:37:30.230 --> 00:37:41.060 Bernd Oberknapp: Well, from… that's a different issue now, but from my perspective, it would be really good not to have different sets of information in viewfinder and in folio. 274 00:37:41.730 --> 00:37:43.110 Bernd Oberknapp: So. 275 00:37:43.420 --> 00:37:54.729 Bernd Oberknapp: I agree. I was always wondering about why the user can have a name and an email address in viewfinder that is separate from the name and the email address and volume. 276 00:37:54.870 --> 00:38:02.050 Bernd Oberknapp: It's… makes things tricky, but, well, maybe there's something I'm overlooking. 277 00:38:02.690 --> 00:38:11.579 Demian Katz: Well, I think a lot is just from the historical fact that when this was all designed, most of the ILSs were read-only, so… 278 00:38:11.580 --> 00:38:30.710 Demian Katz: it just wasn't a possibility, so it wasn't implemented. But now that it is a possibility, at least some things have been implemented. Some ILS drivers let you change your password and things like that, but I don't think all the things that could possibly be done have caught up with what is actually implemented in ViewFind. 279 00:38:36.590 --> 00:38:42.920 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah. Yeah, so it gets to the… the whole account… 280 00:38:43.120 --> 00:38:57.329 Nicole Trujillo: thing, because, again, Chalmers saying this is just about EBSCO and EDS. I'm like, actually, we would love to be able to have patrons reset passwords. That's… especially, we have guest patrons who use a different password system than our Shipilith patrons, so… 281 00:38:57.460 --> 00:38:59.559 Nicole Trujillo: That's… that's funny. 282 00:39:01.540 --> 00:39:11.350 Nicole Trujillo: challenge to navigate, and they can't reset anything, but then I also, like, I'm not my circulation team, and they might say, no, we don't actually want that, so… 283 00:39:11.500 --> 00:39:17.609 Nicole Trujillo: the account stuff… that is interesting that we can do a lot of these things now, Damien, and we're just… 284 00:39:19.510 --> 00:39:22.219 Nicole Trujillo: Maybe waiting to see what people want to do. 285 00:39:22.660 --> 00:39:37.100 Demian Katz: Right, and I think if we wanted to do these, they'd all have to be configurable settings in the INI file so that you could turn them on or off, you know, to accommodate different needs, but I certainly would not be opposed to adding those options 286 00:39:37.210 --> 00:39:41.850 Demian Katz: It's just, you know, as with everything, somebody would have to actually implement it. 287 00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:45.700 Nicole Trujillo: True. Yeah. 288 00:39:46.030 --> 00:39:46.530 Bernd Oberknapp: Okay. 289 00:39:46.530 --> 00:39:48.550 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, and identifying priorities. 290 00:39:48.550 --> 00:39:53.120 Bernd Oberknapp: I'm not volunteering now, but I'm sure when we… 291 00:39:53.550 --> 00:40:11.289 Bernd Oberknapp: finally get to the point where we, really commit to going to folio. I hope that will be in the next weeks. I will certainly look into that, because this is, I find this really important for our users, that they have a clear interface. 292 00:40:11.330 --> 00:40:14.199 Bernd Oberknapp: In the… in viewpoint, where they can see 293 00:40:14.330 --> 00:40:20.570 Bernd Oberknapp: Their data, and not two sets of data, so that's… really… 294 00:40:20.900 --> 00:40:22.689 Bernd Oberknapp: Would be really important to me. 295 00:40:23.860 --> 00:40:33.309 Demian Katz: The other, consideration is that because the ILS data is sort of viewed as secondary in Viewfind, you know, there's… 296 00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:49.959 Demian Katz: there needs to be something in the viewfind database that can allow a user to log in, even if the ILS is temporarily offline or something, and that's part of the reason for the split profile, but that's not to say that there couldn't be logic to try to resynchronize things at. 297 00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:50.400 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah. 298 00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:51.989 Demian Katz: points in time. 299 00:40:51.990 --> 00:41:01.230 Bernd Oberknapp: you probably would simply cache the information on the viewfind side, and make, the, the ILS domain source. 300 00:41:01.710 --> 00:41:02.810 Demian Katz: Exactly. 301 00:41:04.670 --> 00:41:19.060 Nicole Trujillo: This is almost making me think, maybe instead of a workshop, we should do another survey where we're like, here are our current priorities. Are they still a priority for you? Like, give us some more information. What are your new priorities? Maybe account, you know? 302 00:41:20.550 --> 00:41:23.720 Nicole Trujillo: And then use that to kind of advocate for… 303 00:41:23.890 --> 00:41:26.570 Nicole Trujillo: either move in what we currently have Ford. 304 00:41:26.940 --> 00:41:38.049 Nicole Trujillo: because we're like, look, we got a response from, like, 50 customers that they really want this to happen. Please, can we put some more resources here? Or is it… 305 00:41:38.300 --> 00:41:54.690 Nicole Trujillo: more about defining, like, oh, you know, we said we wanted this, but this is exactly what people want to happen. They're like, I don't want to see a, you know, renewal button if the thing can't be renewed. Like, the system should know that. I don't know why it's there. Whereas that's a person saying, like. 306 00:41:55.580 --> 00:42:01.470 Nicole Trujillo: I have the fix, I know what I want the fix to be, I know what I want my patrons to see. 307 00:42:02.430 --> 00:42:09.500 Nicole Trujillo: because I don't know how to get that out of a workshop, but I am hope… if any of you think of ways of, like, getting that out of a workshop, right? Like. 308 00:42:09.980 --> 00:42:24.079 Nicole Trujillo: And when I say workshop, I don't think… I don't know who would do a full, like, day discussing this. This would be more of a presentation, and I put, kind of, what they… WolfCon is accepting. You could do a 15 minutes… 309 00:42:24.200 --> 00:42:26.139 Nicole Trujillo: Or you could do a 40 minutes. 310 00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:27.910 Nicole Trujillo: presentation. 311 00:42:30.350 --> 00:42:43.120 Nicole Trujillo: So, like, let's say we wanted to do a follow-up survey, you could do a 15-minute presentation, be like, these are our top priorities, this is what we actually mean with pictures, we're gonna send out a survey, let us know. 312 00:42:43.300 --> 00:42:49.899 Nicole Trujillo: What yours are, so that we can move these forward, because they're the same from 2023. 313 00:42:50.250 --> 00:42:56.769 Nicole Trujillo: Would be one approach to get feedback from as many people as possible. Olga? 314 00:43:00.410 --> 00:43:04.289 Olga: Sorry, as an outsider, 315 00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:19.409 Olga: I would probably, if I were at 12Con, I'm not going, but a session with the name Pain Points in Discovery would definitely attract my attention. 316 00:43:19.780 --> 00:43:23.720 Olga: So, I don't know if… That's something. 317 00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:25.300 Nicole Trujillo: Oh, that's good. 318 00:43:27.230 --> 00:43:30.280 Olga: Well, you basically are talking about it, and 319 00:43:30.630 --> 00:43:35.880 Olga: I think it's… like, misery loves company, so… 320 00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:41.949 Olga: When you cease that you are not alone, and others talking about 321 00:43:43.170 --> 00:43:47.530 Olga: These things, you want to come and share your pain. 322 00:43:49.070 --> 00:43:52.010 Olga: That's just… My two cents. 323 00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:54.710 Nicole Trujillo: Excellent, and Olga, like. 324 00:43:55.120 --> 00:44:14.589 Nicole Trujillo: if you… let's say, afterwards, you watch it on YouTube, and you see the pain points, and you don't see, like, a pain point that you have there, or you want to, like, talk about one of the pain points mentioned, what would that communication look like? Is a survey the best way? Is there another form? 325 00:44:14.890 --> 00:44:18.380 Nicole Trujillo: For you to get your voice included in the conversation. 326 00:44:19.090 --> 00:44:27.050 Olga: Survey sounds good to… If, like… 327 00:44:27.560 --> 00:44:37.370 Olga: coming to the meetings is a bit tricky, because for me, it's 7 AM, and it's hard. 328 00:44:38.910 --> 00:44:42.140 Olga: I'm not sure what other ways could be, even. 329 00:44:44.380 --> 00:44:49.499 Olga: conferences, of course, that's another way. I usually go to the EBSCO one. 330 00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:54.059 Olga: Because we only have ATS and Locate. 331 00:44:54.260 --> 00:44:55.010 Nicole Trujillo: Gotcha. 332 00:44:58.520 --> 00:45:02.320 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, and Locate's coming up with all sorts of things about, like, holdings and… 333 00:45:02.550 --> 00:45:03.179 Olga: Mmm. Similarly. 334 00:45:03.180 --> 00:45:04.500 Nicole Trujillo: these problems that… 335 00:45:05.700 --> 00:45:06.980 Nicole Trujillo: It's really exciting. 336 00:45:10.300 --> 00:45:12.740 Olga: And that brings the interesting, 337 00:45:13.150 --> 00:45:31.300 Olga: Like, because now we have folio, Locate, and EDS, just one small example, we have a due date in folio as day, month, year, in EDS as year, month, day, and in locate as month, day, year. So, 3 different 338 00:45:31.450 --> 00:45:33.979 Olga: Ways for the same due date. 339 00:45:35.310 --> 00:45:39.900 Olga: Seriously, can you give me just… one format? 340 00:45:41.750 --> 00:45:42.590 Olga: Yeah. 341 00:45:45.720 --> 00:45:50.370 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah… Yeah, our EDS started showing the ISO format. 342 00:45:50.800 --> 00:46:03.329 Olga: And I don't mind, ISO, because in Canada, half… it feels like, I don't know, I don't have stats, but it feels like half country is using Daymond here, the other half is using 343 00:46:03.330 --> 00:46:12.260 Olga: month, day, day, year. And you never know which one is that, unless it's after the 12th of any month. You don't know. 344 00:46:12.350 --> 00:46:14.959 Olga: Because you're just supposed to guess. 345 00:46:15.350 --> 00:46:22.789 Olga: So… To me, put it year, month, day, and then no one is guessing, everyone knows what it is. 346 00:46:23.350 --> 00:46:26.190 Nicole Trujillo: Well, they, I mean, they include the entire string, like… 347 00:46:26.190 --> 00:46:27.270 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, that's difficult. 348 00:46:27.270 --> 00:46:28.210 Nicole Trujillo: a second. 349 00:46:28.490 --> 00:46:31.080 Olga: Yeah, that's even… yeah, that's… 350 00:46:31.080 --> 00:46:46.570 Bernd Oberknapp: And the milliseconds and the time zone, preferably. So, but the year part, or the year, month, day part of the ISO format, I think that's really what should be used, because it's unambiguous. 351 00:46:46.730 --> 00:46:47.670 Bernd Oberknapp: So… 352 00:46:52.390 --> 00:46:56.860 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, and I see what you mean by, the EBSCO conference, right? Because… 353 00:46:58.110 --> 00:47:12.530 Nicole Trujillo: kind of to my earlier point, the vendor conferences are where sometimes you feel when you're talking about those pain points. You can get with the other people who are like, I know, why is it like this? Because they use the same product that you're using. 354 00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:23.369 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, so we are coming up kind of on time… well, I mean, we still got some time, but I just wanted to… 355 00:47:26.020 --> 00:47:32.290 Nicole Trujillo: think again about… about WolfCon, and kind of where we want this conversation to go, and how to form it. 356 00:47:32.860 --> 00:47:42.949 Nicole Trujillo: We could, yeah, we could do a 15-minute pain points and discovery to just cover, again, those… 357 00:47:45.420 --> 00:47:53.770 Nicole Trujillo: 2023 pain points, the corresponding JARA tickets that we're trying to push through, And mention, like. 358 00:47:53.950 --> 00:47:58.029 Nicole Trujillo: There's a whole other world of pain we don't know about, like, and… 359 00:47:58.750 --> 00:48:01.650 Nicole Trujillo: Either survey or some mechanism to 360 00:48:02.170 --> 00:48:09.100 Nicole Trujillo: To make sure we're recognizing that and communicating it back to… the different groups. 361 00:48:10.380 --> 00:48:11.640 Nicole Trujillo: What are your thoughts? 362 00:48:12.110 --> 00:48:18.070 Nicole Trujillo: Or we could just skip it, like, I'm not saying we have to do WolfCon, I'm just trying to think of ways 363 00:48:18.220 --> 00:48:19.410 Nicole Trujillo: to get. 364 00:48:19.810 --> 00:48:23.400 Nicole Trujillo: Information from the community about their priorities. 365 00:48:24.130 --> 00:48:29.990 Demian Katz: I think the 15-minute talk seems like a reasonable approach, 366 00:48:30.130 --> 00:48:38.980 Demian Katz: because I… I don't feel like we have a super clear direction that gives us a longer time slot, but… but this sort of… 367 00:48:39.110 --> 00:48:47.439 Demian Katz: Just reiterating and… Requesting feedback, giving a status report that, that fits well. 368 00:48:47.570 --> 00:48:51.150 Demian Katz: And I know the, 369 00:48:51.530 --> 00:49:01.989 Demian Katz: The organizing committee is looking for more talks, so would appreciate this submission to get something else on the… on the schedule. 370 00:49:05.490 --> 00:49:09.580 Demian Katz: The other question is, who will be physically there to… 371 00:49:09.990 --> 00:49:16.929 Demian Katz: Run the talk, because we can't get anywhere if there's nobody there to… Do the on-site piece. 372 00:49:17.140 --> 00:49:25.960 Demian Katz: I'm certainly happy to help, remotely, as long as it doesn't conflict with all the viewfind stuff I'm already obligated to do. 373 00:49:34.020 --> 00:49:36.270 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, I mean, I'm certainly happy to speak, but… 374 00:49:36.780 --> 00:49:39.369 Nicole Trujillo: I will not physically be there. 375 00:49:41.260 --> 00:49:53.709 Maccabee Levine: I don't think we should worry about the who-will-be-there problem. I think if WolfCon is desperate for talks, and there's a whole lot of accepted talks from remote, then we'll collectively figure out someone to push the start button on these Zooms. 376 00:49:53.900 --> 00:49:58.500 Maccabee Levine: I think if we as a technology community can't figure that out, then we've got bigger problems. 377 00:50:02.120 --> 00:50:11.350 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, I'm gonna… I'm just kind of writing in the draft what the outline of… 15 minutes. Here are the top… here are 5 top 2023 pain points. 378 00:50:11.470 --> 00:50:13.660 Nicole Trujillo: Here are the JIRAs. 379 00:50:13.780 --> 00:50:15.870 Nicole Trujillo: Associated with those. 380 00:50:16.630 --> 00:50:18.029 Nicole Trujillo: Port fixes… 381 00:50:18.450 --> 00:50:31.359 Demian Katz: And I mean, maybe we should try to also have some positive things to say, like, have we actually made progress in some of these areas? What is that progress? Or is it really grim? 382 00:50:33.500 --> 00:50:35.630 Nicole Trujillo: You know, there's been a lot of workarounds. 383 00:50:35.870 --> 00:50:54.699 Nicole Trujillo: to fix… I'm thinking about, like, loan type, and kind of the use of loan type to do things that previously couldn't be done, and there's been a lot of work in loan type. And then, also, the library location has been shouldering a lot of work for us. Yeah. 384 00:50:54.890 --> 00:51:01.030 Nicole Trujillo: Because it's what we use to, like, take away that place ahold link for a certain item, so… 385 00:51:03.760 --> 00:51:07.480 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, we could talk about workarounds and fixes. 386 00:51:09.540 --> 00:51:15.390 Nicole Trujillo: with examples. And I was… I'm glad you mentioned that, too, because I was like, I want pictures of, like, working examples, and, like. 387 00:51:15.900 --> 00:51:21.879 Nicole Trujillo: UIs, we're like, yes, this is kind of the direction we want to go, because that always gives some nice context, too. 388 00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:26.170 Nicole Trujillo: the very technical JARAs that are out there. 389 00:51:27.670 --> 00:51:31.740 Nicole Trujillo: But, like, wouldn't it be nice if instead of relying on the location. 390 00:51:32.200 --> 00:51:40.840 Nicole Trujillo: Behind the scenes, there's a flag that lets… if that user's logged in, they know exactly… they can see exactly what they can request and what they can't. 391 00:51:41.090 --> 00:51:46.600 Nicole Trujillo: There's no error message, because there can't, like… That'd be amazing. 392 00:51:56.970 --> 00:52:03.360 Bernd Oberknapp: So, do you mean, is… will the deadline for submitting the sessions be extended? Do you already know? 393 00:52:03.500 --> 00:52:04.219 Bernd Oberknapp: Or in the… 394 00:52:04.220 --> 00:52:04.930 Demian Katz: not… 395 00:52:04.930 --> 00:52:06.060 Bernd Oberknapp: The 25th. 396 00:52:07.070 --> 00:52:18.949 Demian Katz: It is currently the 25th. I mean, historically, I think extensions have happened, but I don't think we want to, encourage people to procrastinate, so… 397 00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:34.810 Nicole Trujillo: Yeah, I'm under draft, I'm just coming up with, like, an outline, are you? 398 00:52:35.190 --> 00:52:36.030 Demian Katz: Right. 399 00:52:36.390 --> 00:52:38.320 Nicole Trujillo: Are they still your pain points? 400 00:52:39.540 --> 00:52:41.760 Demian Katz: And what… what's new? 401 00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:47.819 Nicole Trujillo: What's your… And then… yeah, then it could be a nice, quick, like… 402 00:52:47.950 --> 00:52:51.279 Nicole Trujillo: Here's where… here's the state of where we're at. 403 00:52:52.430 --> 00:53:02.699 Nicole Trujillo: what is, you know, what's new. And then, as Olga was pointing out, if many of these people will not watch this until after, you know, they're posted on YouTube. 404 00:53:03.270 --> 00:53:09.049 Nicole Trujillo: I might only see the survey if we do a survey, not committing anyone yet. 405 00:53:09.670 --> 00:53:15.620 Nicole Trujillo: But that would be an easy way to get that feedback, because, you know, like, at a presentation. 406 00:53:15.950 --> 00:53:23.879 Nicole Trujillo: Unless you're really doing a hands-on workshop and you've got a lot of people there, it can be very hard to, like, for people to speak out into a group or two. 407 00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:30.159 Nicole Trujillo: Put something in the chat, even. Their true opinion of what they're working with and what they're seeing. 408 00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:37.740 Nicole Trujillo: Whereas a survey is more like… 409 00:53:38.010 --> 00:53:42.650 Nicole Trujillo: Sending it off into ether. You're like, I can be very honest here. 410 00:53:45.260 --> 00:53:53.660 Nicole Trujillo: Okay, I'll continue to kind of work on this draft slash outline, and then post it to the group to kind of… 411 00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:58.060 Nicole Trujillo: Get some more feedback, especially for those who 412 00:53:58.900 --> 00:54:07.139 Nicole Trujillo: Maybe are on the different time and didn't realize what time this meeting was, or couldn't make it for other reasons, because of the time shift. 413 00:54:09.230 --> 00:54:12.060 Nicole Trujillo: Any other announcements, updates, or questions? 414 00:54:19.480 --> 00:54:25.660 Demian Katz: I'll just once again say, if you want me to help with, this presentation, proposal. 415 00:54:25.770 --> 00:54:33.490 Demian Katz: please ping me directly in Slack so that I don't miss it, because I do want to be helpful, but I'm a little overwhelmed, as always. 416 00:54:33.490 --> 00:54:41.199 Nicole Trujillo: Understood, Damien. Understood. And hopefully, like, the decision to go with a 15-minute stuff we already know presentation makes this… 417 00:54:41.940 --> 00:54:51.920 Nicole Trujillo: Super simple and easy to do, and once again, I'm not committing it yet, so if people don't think it's a good idea, we don't have to do it, and that would free up some of your time. 418 00:54:56.490 --> 00:55:04.519 Nicole Trujillo: All right, well, have a lovely Tuesday, and I'll see you all next meeting. I think I'm canceling the meeting after this, but then… 419 00:55:04.710 --> 00:55:08.280 Nicole Trujillo: Two weeks from then, so you'll have some time before our next meeting. 420 00:55:08.450 --> 00:55:09.019 Nicole Trujillo: Bye all. 421 00:55:09.020 --> 00:55:09.810 Bernd Oberknapp: Don't know me. 422 00:55:10.240 --> 00:55:11.500 Bernd Oberknapp: the 31st. 423 00:55:11.980 --> 00:55:15.690 Nicole Trujillo: Right, because I think it's the last week of the month where… 424 00:55:16.130 --> 00:55:22.690 Bernd Oberknapp: I wasn't sure if it's the last week of March or the first week of April, so… 425 00:55:22.690 --> 00:55:29.250 Nicole Trujillo: It is technically… I'm fine with waiting, unless something urgent comes up. 426 00:55:29.250 --> 00:55:30.050 Bernd Oberknapp: Okay. 427 00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:32.630 Nicole Trujillo: Bye all. 428 00:55:32.630 --> 00:55:33.390 Bernd Oberknapp: Bye.