WEBVTT 1 00:01:25.110 --> 00:01:26.210 Stefan Dombek: Oh, Lord. 2 00:01:41.320 --> 00:01:42.510 Stefan Dombek: unborn. 3 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:44.650 Bernd Oberknapp: Hello. 4 00:01:55.980 --> 00:02:00.280 Stefan Dombek: Let's go beyond the time, and, 5 00:02:00.510 --> 00:02:04.389 Stefan Dombek: We have a new member today. Hello, Aaron Brock. 6 00:02:08.449 --> 00:02:09.359 Erin Block: Hello! 7 00:02:09.370 --> 00:02:20.729 Stefan Dombek: Hi. Yeah, I got a message from you, and now you are here in this meeting. Do you like to introduce yourself? 8 00:02:21.140 --> 00:02:22.210 Stefan Dombek: fast, you know. 9 00:02:22.210 --> 00:02:35.289 Erin Block: Yeah, Erin Block and I work at the University of Colorado Boulder, and I gather all the, online usage stats and stuff, so, I've been trying to tackle the e-usage app. 10 00:02:35.430 --> 00:02:39.010 Erin Block: And I figured this group would be helpful. 11 00:02:42.250 --> 00:02:47.319 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, this group is, a very… 12 00:02:47.440 --> 00:02:57.200 Stefan Dombek: special group, that's a subgroup of the ERM, SIC, and we just discuss, the topics, 13 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:01.590 Stefan Dombek: For usage, and also for counter, and… 14 00:03:01.760 --> 00:03:04.959 Stefan Dombek: And this group is also banned. 15 00:03:05.160 --> 00:03:08.560 Stefan Dombek: And he is a specialist for Counter. 16 00:03:08.690 --> 00:03:13.680 Stefan Dombek: And if you have questions to counter, you can also address this to Brent. 17 00:03:14.670 --> 00:03:17.010 Stefan Dombek: Okay. 18 00:03:17.010 --> 00:03:25.069 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, may I ask, you are using EBSCO eHolings, or are you using the income knowledge base? 19 00:03:25.660 --> 00:03:28.940 Erin Block: we're using, EBSCO eHoldings. 20 00:03:29.490 --> 00:03:38.300 Bernd Oberknapp: Because that's an important point. I don't think the… eHuse Plugin will work for 21 00:03:39.180 --> 00:03:42.419 Bernd Oberknapp: the e-holdings? You… so you can… 22 00:03:42.730 --> 00:03:51.149 Bernd Oberknapp: harvest reports, but you can evaluate them in folio. I don't think this will work with BE Holdings. 23 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:57.880 Erin Block: Yeah, I've gotten the sushi reports to run successfully, but yeah, not connect to the… 24 00:03:58.030 --> 00:03:59.449 Erin Block: to the eHoldings app. 25 00:04:03.220 --> 00:04:07.029 Stefan Dombek: And do you have other analyzed tools, or… 26 00:04:08.010 --> 00:04:14.270 Erin Block: We do use Power BI for, for some, analysis, 27 00:04:15.010 --> 00:04:15.630 Stefan Dombek: Hmm, but… 28 00:04:15.630 --> 00:04:18.090 Erin Block: But that's… that's the main one right now. 29 00:04:19.829 --> 00:04:20.589 Stefan Dombek: Okay. 30 00:04:22.129 --> 00:04:39.709 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, and there was also a question, if you have plans to integrate eHoardings, for, the agreement plugin, and, yeah, what I read was that it's not planned yet, and… 31 00:04:40.559 --> 00:04:41.529 Stefan Dombek: Yeah. 32 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:50.319 Stefan Dombek: And… Maybe later? We don't know, but at, at, at the beginning, we, 33 00:04:50.739 --> 00:05:04.329 Stefan Dombek: you have to know, usage is, splitted in two components. We have a, main component, it's usage, where you can harvest, 34 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:11.729 Stefan Dombek: the counter statistics and, can, manage these statistics. 35 00:05:11.999 --> 00:05:21.169 Stefan Dombek: And the additional component is the plugin for agreements, and… Edits… 36 00:05:21.319 --> 00:05:33.759 Stefan Dombek: at this time, it is not developed by, the development team, Leipzig. It's a new team. It's the team from Hebes, and, 37 00:05:34.009 --> 00:05:46.689 Stefan Dombek: We have members from Habes here, it's Melanie and Linda, and they can talk more about this plugin if you have questions for this. 38 00:05:48.460 --> 00:06:07.950 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I think the reason why the e-holdings doesn't work is because the targets are not in the local knowledge base, because you're using the EBSCO holdings management. So, the way this works in… with the local knowledge base is that the user's report titles are matched against the local knowledge base. 39 00:06:08.020 --> 00:06:13.390 Bernd Oberknapp: And that doesn't work if you use e-holdings, so that's the reason why the plug-in 40 00:06:13.890 --> 00:06:27.440 Bernd Oberknapp: won't work at the moment, and why it probably would be difficult to spot that in Folio. But if you use Power BI, you could, of course, use the data collected with Folio 41 00:06:27.630 --> 00:06:30.770 Bernd Oberknapp: For the evaluations and… Yeah. 42 00:06:37.670 --> 00:06:42.639 Stefan Dombek: Okay, yeah, Aaron, if you… 43 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:53.899 Stefan Dombek: want, you can add, e-usage, to, this, section, focus of work, in the table from the ERMSIC. 44 00:06:54.270 --> 00:06:59.839 Stefan Dombek: So that we can filter out the people that work with e-usage. 45 00:07:00.030 --> 00:07:01.690 Stefan Dombek: Or have interests? 46 00:07:01.820 --> 00:07:04.230 Stefan Dombek: And… Yeah. 47 00:07:04.370 --> 00:07:09.829 Stefan Dombek: So… and sometimes we have also, 48 00:07:10.900 --> 00:07:17.150 Stefan Dombek: item… agenda items for the ERMSIC, but, the, 49 00:07:17.590 --> 00:07:23.549 Stefan Dombek: The most time, we only discuss all our topics here in this group. 50 00:07:24.820 --> 00:07:26.750 Stefan Dombek: Okay. 51 00:07:26.990 --> 00:07:27.490 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I'm… 52 00:07:27.490 --> 00:07:28.080 Stefan Dombek: don't. 53 00:07:28.080 --> 00:07:38.650 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I'm wondering if the… the fact that the, agreement from GBV with KIND ends at tomorrow. 54 00:07:39.140 --> 00:07:42.969 Bernd Oberknapp: And that, I think, index data will… 55 00:07:43.100 --> 00:07:53.570 Bernd Oberknapp: be responsible for the ERM modules for… for the next time, until there is the new tenure is run. 56 00:07:53.750 --> 00:07:58.649 Bernd Oberknapp: I'm wondering if that has any effects on the e-usage part? 57 00:07:59.310 --> 00:08:03.389 Bernd Oberknapp: Fewer aware that there's something Or the plugin. 58 00:08:03.630 --> 00:08:07.090 Bernd Oberknapp: Or the timeline for the releases, or something like that. 59 00:08:09.540 --> 00:08:18.730 Stefan Dombek: It's only for the, EasyG plugin. Easyg is a standalone software, so… Yeah. 60 00:08:20.420 --> 00:08:28.919 Stefan Dombek: But I saw there are a new item for usage reports for today, and… 61 00:08:29.220 --> 00:08:38.660 Stefan Dombek: Would you like to get started, Melanie or Linda, with these points before we, look at the items for usage? 62 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:50.509 Melanie Völker: Yeah, that's no problem. I want to give a short update about the development of eUs at the plugin, and, we are working on… 63 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:57.169 Melanie Völker: some features for Trillium. I've linked the ticket in the… in the agenda. 64 00:08:58.679 --> 00:08:59.579 Melanie Völker: Yep. 65 00:09:01.229 --> 00:09:04.169 Melanie Völker: And, yo. 66 00:09:04.289 --> 00:09:12.349 Melanie Völker: There's most, corrections about the, the, calculating cost per use. 67 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:35.209 Melanie Völker: You can see there are some, some topics, e-journal with, two order items and one invoice, two invoices, invoice and, a credit note. When there is an invoice cancellation, so the plugin wasn't… 68 00:09:35.299 --> 00:09:40.019 Melanie Völker: Calculating right, and we are correcting this at the moment. 69 00:09:40.619 --> 00:09:46.279 Melanie Völker: The first tests are… complete, and… Everything looks good. 70 00:09:46.709 --> 00:09:48.789 Melanie Völker: And… yeah. 71 00:09:52.010 --> 00:09:58.739 Bernd Oberknapp: So, the plugins should essentially work with any number of invoices and any number of, 72 00:10:02.040 --> 00:10:03.030 Bernd Oberknapp: Yo. 73 00:10:03.790 --> 00:10:06.259 Bernd Oberknapp: Depending on… on whether it's a… 74 00:10:07.150 --> 00:10:12.400 Bernd Oberknapp: Plus or minus, they should calculate the correct Final. 75 00:10:13.630 --> 00:10:24.140 Bernd Oberknapp: some, and, I'm not sure about the, calculation. Some tickets mentioned a journal, some mention a package. 76 00:10:24.550 --> 00:10:37.750 Bernd Oberknapp: Is there something broken down by journal or by title in the evaluation? Because I always thought this is a… an evaluation for all the agreements lines that are 77 00:10:37.890 --> 00:10:40.039 Bernd Oberknapp: Attached to an agreement. 78 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:45.990 Bernd Oberknapp: That could be a single journal, but that's not very likely. 79 00:10:49.320 --> 00:11:01.630 Linda Nolte: But that's what is… what we started with, with one journal and one, invoice, because we wanted a simple case, and we are now getting to the package, more agreement lines. 80 00:11:02.970 --> 00:11:07.019 Bernd Oberknapp: Okay, so you either have a package, or with multiple gels, or… 81 00:11:07.020 --> 00:11:07.340 Linda Nolte: Yes. 82 00:11:07.340 --> 00:11:12.360 Bernd Oberknapp: Multiple agreement lines, and, okay, that all should be covered, of course. 83 00:11:12.590 --> 00:11:21.350 Linda Nolte: Yes, but we are just getting to that. We started with one e-journal and one invoice, because it was easier to check if it's right. 84 00:11:21.830 --> 00:11:27.149 Bernd Oberknapp: Okay, so the… as a basic test, that everything, the basic things are working, okay. 85 00:11:38.470 --> 00:11:44.729 Stefan Dombek: Hey, and… It works with count of 5-1. 86 00:11:47.940 --> 00:11:48.890 Stefan Dombek: Okay. 87 00:11:49.860 --> 00:11:56.219 Linda Nolte: Yes, but we have a bug in our, test system with counter 5.1, 88 00:11:56.830 --> 00:12:00.399 Linda Nolte: But that's with our system. We're checking that. 89 00:12:02.570 --> 00:12:03.420 Stefan Dombek: Okay. 90 00:12:04.270 --> 00:12:13.750 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, I saw, something similar in our test systems. There was a problem with, 91 00:12:14.510 --> 00:12:18.930 Stefan Dombek: with Kafka, and if it's not, 92 00:12:19.650 --> 00:12:27.270 Stefan Dombek: Is… if you have not the right configuration, then, some… Messages were not… 93 00:12:27.500 --> 00:12:34.149 Stefan Dombek: Come to… to the end, and, then you have, some errors. 94 00:12:34.250 --> 00:12:48.019 Stefan Dombek: In usage, but, it was just a local problem in our test installations, but if you see something like that, then tell me, and, we… 95 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:50.600 Stefan Dombek: Can take a look on this. 96 00:12:50.930 --> 00:12:53.610 Stefan Dombek: In, in our development team, again. 97 00:12:55.910 --> 00:13:00.210 Stefan Dombek: Okay. 98 00:13:00.400 --> 00:13:01.710 Stefan Dombek: And… 99 00:13:02.660 --> 00:13:19.299 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, we saw also some bugs. One came from, I'm not sure, is it from you, Aaron? Or this one here, that there is a typo in the permissions, or it was another person? 100 00:13:19.300 --> 00:13:20.819 Erin Block: I don't think that was me. 101 00:13:20.820 --> 00:13:39.190 Stefan Dombek: Okay, okay. Yeah, we updated at any time the permission names, and forgot, to rename the permission names in the permission sets, and this is a bug, so we are working on this bug, and 102 00:13:39.190 --> 00:13:41.629 Stefan Dombek: I see it, it's in, 103 00:13:41.770 --> 00:13:52.719 Stefan Dombek: It is merged, and so we see this in, Sunflower and in, I hope so in… also in Remissance, but… 104 00:13:52.750 --> 00:14:05.570 Stefan Dombek: I will double-check this with our developer again, and then give you the information if it's, if we, update it as also for Remsens and for Central. 105 00:14:05.850 --> 00:14:17.060 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I noticed that in our test environment that we've deployed sometime ago, we had the problem that the administrator had no access to the e-usage. 106 00:14:17.630 --> 00:14:24.449 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, that probably was the reason, so I had to go in and add some permissions for the administrator. 107 00:14:24.830 --> 00:14:31.379 Bernd Oberknapp: That indeed seems to be fixed, the latest deployment, the permissions seem to be correct. 108 00:14:31.700 --> 00:14:34.769 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, I think it was just a point. 109 00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:38.500 Stefan Dombek: Instead of a hive. 110 00:14:38.500 --> 00:14:40.350 Bernd Oberknapp: But that's sufficient. 111 00:14:41.690 --> 00:14:52.279 Stefan Dombek: So… Yeah, and then we had another bug, yeah, bug or feature, I'm not sure. 112 00:14:53.470 --> 00:14:55.960 Stefan Dombek: Which category is it, 113 00:14:56.190 --> 00:15:15.330 Stefan Dombek: if you go to the harvester logs, the page, not refresh, all the jobs. You have manually refreshed the jobs, and then you see all the jobs that are, run at the time, so… and, 114 00:15:16.390 --> 00:15:21.940 Stefan Dombek: This ticket, resolved this problem, so, when you… 115 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:40.050 Stefan Dombek: I'm not sure. Yeah, pull request is open, but I think in the next, versions of usage, you can see it, and then when you go to the harvester logs, it refreshes itself, the table, and then you can see all the running jobs. 116 00:15:40.160 --> 00:15:43.950 Stefan Dombek: And you don't have to click on the button refresh. 117 00:15:46.860 --> 00:16:00.120 Bernd Oberknapp: I think that's an issue in other places in folio, so sometimes I reload the page to finally get the new data, so that's not just a problem in e-usage. 118 00:16:04.560 --> 00:16:09.080 Stefan Dombek: Okay, and then we have… Well, it's… 119 00:16:09.290 --> 00:16:17.849 Stefan Dombek: just the information for you, I'm working together with the development team, on the refinement on these two. 120 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:29.450 Stefan Dombek: Tickets, that, is… that are for error handling, and… The first one is, 121 00:16:31.330 --> 00:16:42.250 Stefan Dombek: The ticket for the, additional optional settings, that you can set up in… 122 00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:46.490 Stefan Dombek: For a usage data provider, for, 123 00:16:47.090 --> 00:16:56.770 Stefan Dombek: I think the right name for this cluster is, Connection failures, And… 124 00:16:57.340 --> 00:17:06.140 Stefan Dombek: it contains the counter API exceptions, 1000… 10, 10, 11, and 10.20. 125 00:17:06.660 --> 00:17:11.889 Stefan Dombek: And our solution will be that you can… 126 00:17:12.280 --> 00:17:29.239 Stefan Dombek: adjust the behavior from the harvester. That means, you can set global settings, where you can define the behavior for these, CUP. 127 00:17:29.780 --> 00:17:43.130 Stefan Dombek: Exceptions, for example, if you would like that you harvest, hmm… Yeah… 128 00:17:43.520 --> 00:18:01.080 Stefan Dombek: need a new behavior for when the server response is that the service is not available, then you can set up that the harvester will, try again to… 129 00:18:01.120 --> 00:18:07.169 Stefan Dombek: Harvest the data, after some minutes, and, but it's… 130 00:18:08.050 --> 00:18:16.070 Stefan Dombek: All of this is optional, so you can set it up, or we… we use, 131 00:18:16.780 --> 00:18:20.459 Stefan Dombek: Default settings in the backend program. 132 00:18:20.570 --> 00:18:26.639 Stefan Dombek: But if you would like to adjust this, you can do this in the global settings. 133 00:18:27.050 --> 00:18:39.089 Stefan Dombek: And if you need, individual settings for a provider, we… We'll implement, 134 00:18:40.050 --> 00:18:52.879 Stefan Dombek: An additional, feature, so that you can set up these options directly, in the data record of a usage data provider. 135 00:18:53.100 --> 00:18:58.349 Stefan Dombek: And then these settings will overfry the global settings. 136 00:19:01.630 --> 00:19:06.990 Stefan Dombek: And I think we discussed this in the last meetings, and 137 00:19:08.340 --> 00:19:23.270 Stefan Dombek: I added some, points, from the development team. They said, there should be a help text, above these settings, so that the user knows what, 138 00:19:23.800 --> 00:19:31.660 Stefan Dombek: They can adjust here, and… I think, 139 00:19:32.340 --> 00:19:43.729 Stefan Dombek: We can always, change the text at any time, so… and if we need more text for the users, then we can also update this with, 140 00:19:44.570 --> 00:19:45.950 Stefan Dombek: With a new text. 141 00:19:46.460 --> 00:19:58.360 Stefan Dombek: And… And you have also the option, to translate this, with the localized tool, so… and… 142 00:20:00.810 --> 00:20:13.659 Stefan Dombek: It's… let me see… we have also info text is behind each option, and when the user clicks on the info icon, then you can also see 143 00:20:13.780 --> 00:20:16.320 Stefan Dombek: What do you do with this option? 144 00:20:21.620 --> 00:20:24.470 Stefan Dombek: Okay. 145 00:20:24.810 --> 00:20:36.449 Bernd Oberknapp: So we… I think we also discussed that the default value should be visible if you go… Yes. I think that's important to see what the current settings are. 146 00:20:36.860 --> 00:20:50.129 Stefan Dombek: Yeah. That's included in this issue, benju… Open and usage data… 147 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:58.970 Stefan Dombek: provider record, then you see the default settings from global settings, and if you… don't have… 148 00:21:00.250 --> 00:21:09.529 Stefan Dombek: global settings for these options, then you will see the default values from the backend program. 149 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:21.150 Stefan Dombek: And then you have also the option to see, 150 00:21:21.300 --> 00:21:29.949 Stefan Dombek: These settings, for the error handling in the detailed view of a record from the usage data provider. 151 00:21:33.910 --> 00:21:53.060 Stefan Dombek: And here are subsections in error handling, general, and counter API exceptions. That was a requirement from the development team, because, they said if we, would like to add 152 00:21:54.180 --> 00:22:06.410 Stefan Dombek: more… exception handling, for the harvester, then we need, sections for, these options. 153 00:22:10.630 --> 00:22:13.300 Bernd Oberknapp: So they, they want to group them together. 154 00:22:14.090 --> 00:22:15.679 Stefan Dombek: Yes, that's right. 155 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:24.919 Bernd Oberknapp: Okay, so these… these ones, and maybe the 30-somewhat exceptions, that would be a different group. 156 00:22:26.470 --> 00:22:32.720 Stefan Dombek: Yes. So, the, yeah. 157 00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:35.819 Stefan Dombek: The reason is, 158 00:22:36.300 --> 00:22:47.370 Stefan Dombek: not everyone knows what 1000 and so on means, and so you have a group for counter-API exceptions. 159 00:22:48.260 --> 00:23:01.719 Bernd Oberknapp: Okay, you would put all counter-API exceptions in one group, and other errors that could occur, for example, if you can't make a connection to the API server or something like that in a different group. 160 00:23:01.900 --> 00:23:02.540 Stefan Dombek: Yes. 161 00:23:02.540 --> 00:23:03.370 Bernd Oberknapp: Oh, okay. 162 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:10.209 Bernd Oberknapp: Because I was just thinking about putting counter API exceptions in different groups, and that would be… 163 00:23:11.130 --> 00:23:13.790 Bernd Oberknapp: I don't think that would make so much sense. Okay. 164 00:23:13.790 --> 00:23:15.200 Stefan Dombek: Nope. 165 00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:15.770 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah. 166 00:23:16.170 --> 00:23:21.820 Bernd Oberknapp: I'm wondering, Aaron, did you run into problems with the, 167 00:23:22.870 --> 00:23:31.510 Bernd Oberknapp: 1011, this report queued, or the 1020, too many requests when you harvest reports? 168 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:35.170 Erin Block: I do run into the too-manue requests. 169 00:23:36.270 --> 00:23:41.489 Erin Block: And I'm not sure how to resolve, like, why that's happening, or how to resolve that. 170 00:23:42.910 --> 00:23:43.310 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah. 171 00:23:43.310 --> 00:23:48.099 Erin Block: And… and yeah, the report queued for processing, I've also run into that one as well. 172 00:23:48.890 --> 00:23:58.299 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, the problem might be, I think this has been mostly resolved on the report provider side, because there were some 173 00:23:58.300 --> 00:24:13.510 Bernd Oberknapp: that were just caching the generated reports for a few hours, and folio was trying again after 24 hours when the cache reports were already gone, and then you were in loop until you went into the error limit. 174 00:24:13.590 --> 00:24:19.139 Bernd Oberknapp: And I think that has been… that was most… Likely lib links. 175 00:24:19.510 --> 00:24:23.400 Bernd Oberknapp: publishes on LibLinks, and I think LibLinks has fixed that. 176 00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:26.289 Bernd Oberknapp: But the… 177 00:24:26.670 --> 00:24:43.700 Bernd Oberknapp: 1020, too many requests, that's a tricky one, and this is why the setting might be interesting on the, usage data provider level, so that you can have different settings depending on the, on the usage data provider. 178 00:24:44.130 --> 00:24:57.160 Bernd Oberknapp: And, I think we have discussed, the default should be not more than one request per second, if I remember correctly, because that's the limit Scholarly IQ imposes. 179 00:24:57.460 --> 00:25:01.550 Bernd Oberknapp: And, you would run into… this arrow. 180 00:25:02.340 --> 00:25:06.780 Bernd Oberknapp: Permanently, if… if you go under… under one request per second. 181 00:25:07.070 --> 00:25:13.809 Bernd Oberknapp: So, not really configurable at the moment, and this is why we are discussing to make this configurable. 182 00:25:26.610 --> 00:25:29.290 Stefan Dombek: Are there any questions, or… 183 00:25:30.910 --> 00:25:36.230 Stefan Dombek: Other meanings about these features, 184 00:25:39.500 --> 00:25:48.269 Stefan Dombek: We have time to plan this feature, so… and if you have more ideas, we can add this to the tickets, and… 185 00:25:50.310 --> 00:25:57.720 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, but I think you need more time to analyze the tickets before you can say more about this. 186 00:25:58.430 --> 00:26:07.049 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, actually, are you already working on an implementation, or are you still refining the tickets? 187 00:26:07.050 --> 00:26:09.740 Stefan Dombek: We refined the tickets. 188 00:26:10.150 --> 00:26:18.550 Stefan Dombek: I talk, with the development team, and they have also ideas, and what we can, 189 00:26:18.940 --> 00:26:22.580 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, Ed… And… 190 00:26:22.850 --> 00:26:31.309 Stefan Dombek: If you have more ideas, then we can talk about this, and then we can also add these points. 191 00:26:33.560 --> 00:26:42.919 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I think I don't have any additional ideas at the moment. I think we have discussed everything that, from my experience is important. 192 00:26:43.510 --> 00:26:46.230 Bernd Oberknapp: So, huh. 193 00:26:46.800 --> 00:26:52.770 Bernd Oberknapp: The interesting next step for me would be to see the working version by at least. 194 00:26:52.770 --> 00:26:53.320 Stefan Dombek: He's the first one. 195 00:26:53.320 --> 00:26:58.349 Bernd Oberknapp: version that I can try, because that makes things a lot easier. 196 00:26:58.730 --> 00:27:02.750 Bernd Oberknapp: To understand, how good this works, but… 197 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.839 Bernd Oberknapp: But that the development team first wants to refine the tickets. 198 00:27:09.110 --> 00:27:17.639 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, that's a good point. It was also a discussion in our team, how we can test this, and 199 00:27:18.850 --> 00:27:20.150 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, yeah. 200 00:27:20.410 --> 00:27:25.210 Stefan Dombek: Different, point of views, and… 201 00:27:26.470 --> 00:27:36.529 Stefan Dombek: Our developer, said, it's better to implement the feature and let them test the user, and, 202 00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:45.560 Stefan Dombek: after that, we can, improve the feature after this first draft in Snapshot. 203 00:27:46.220 --> 00:27:52.350 Stefan Dombek: If it's okay for you, then we can, 204 00:27:52.740 --> 00:28:03.290 Stefan Dombek: go this way, and, make a first draft on Snapshot, and then you can test it, and then after that, we can, improve the feature. 205 00:28:03.390 --> 00:28:04.550 Stefan Dombek: So… 206 00:28:04.990 --> 00:28:14.559 Stefan Dombek: That we have more iterations, to develop these, things, and, you can test it. Test it. 207 00:28:14.980 --> 00:28:26.540 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, yeah. Otherwise, you would need to work with somebody who knows which usage data providers cause problems, and so you could trigger the error. For example. 208 00:28:27.100 --> 00:28:39.330 Bernd Oberknapp: What comes to my mind is Scholarly IQ for the number of, requests, if you go under 1 per second, lip links, if you want to test the repot queued feature. 209 00:28:39.350 --> 00:28:50.080 Bernd Oberknapp: JSTOR, if you want a combination. If you retry too often with… and get the 1011 error, at some point you get a 1020 error. 210 00:28:50.620 --> 00:28:58.329 Bernd Oberknapp: Which tells you, I think, to try again in the next day, but you can try again after 10 minutes, or something like that, and it won't work. 211 00:28:58.710 --> 00:29:06.059 Bernd Oberknapp: So, you need these usage data providers here, where you know that the errors would occur. The… 212 00:29:06.210 --> 00:29:12.620 Bernd Oberknapp: 1000 is… simple, you could simply, enter an invalid base URL, 213 00:29:13.810 --> 00:29:18.670 Bernd Oberknapp: Do you have a mock server that you could try, that you could use for testing? 214 00:29:22.090 --> 00:29:23.499 Stefan Dombek: Not at the moment. 215 00:29:24.550 --> 00:29:27.840 Bernd Oberknapp: Because for some errors, like the, 216 00:29:28.810 --> 00:29:36.339 Bernd Oberknapp: What is it, the unavailable, that's probably something he wants… 217 00:29:36.490 --> 00:29:39.440 Bernd Oberknapp: can't easily trigger the service busy. 218 00:29:40.560 --> 00:29:45.620 Bernd Oberknapp: So you probably need something like a mock server that will return your service busy when you try. 219 00:29:49.730 --> 00:30:04.420 Bernd Oberknapp: Unfortunately, counter doesn't have a mock server. There is something like a very basic mock server in the Stoplight API, implementation, but, 220 00:30:05.260 --> 00:30:08.940 Bernd Oberknapp: That's not really… really usable. 221 00:30:10.300 --> 00:30:14.470 Bernd Oberknapp: And I'm not sure, I know that Salos has a mock server. 222 00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:27.550 Bernd Oberknapp: But they don't trigger those errors, if I remember correctly. They simply deliver reports and respond to your reports, to your requests. 223 00:30:27.990 --> 00:30:33.449 Bernd Oberknapp: So, the, the one… 1010 might be tricky to test. 224 00:30:35.600 --> 00:30:36.870 Stefan Dombek: Okay, 225 00:30:40.100 --> 00:30:49.969 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, that's what I mentioned. It's tricky to… how we can test it, if the feature is working correct. 226 00:30:50.180 --> 00:30:55.369 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, what I could do is, actually, I could ask the counter code team 227 00:30:55.770 --> 00:31:05.780 Bernd Oberknapp: If they have an idea how… how people test their client implementations, because we're talking a lot about testing the server implementations. 228 00:31:06.230 --> 00:31:10.579 Bernd Oberknapp: With the validation tool and other tools, but we… 229 00:31:10.860 --> 00:31:16.400 Bernd Oberknapp: Really, only in some cases, talk about the clients. 230 00:31:17.180 --> 00:31:27.650 Bernd Oberknapp: But that's… I think that's important. If counter could provide something like a mock server that would… could trigger those errors we could… that you could use for testing, that would be really helpful. 231 00:31:28.350 --> 00:31:32.890 Bernd Oberknapp: So, I could ask the co-team, but I'm not sure what the result would be. 232 00:31:33.990 --> 00:31:36.180 Stefan Dombek: It sounds good. 233 00:31:36.340 --> 00:31:44.639 Stefan Dombek: So, when we have, a server where we can, test these, implementations, so… 234 00:31:44.820 --> 00:31:51.489 Stefan Dombek: It should work correctly before we, make it visible for all, so… 235 00:31:53.930 --> 00:32:01.749 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, actually, a very basic mock server if you don't need the right reports, but you just want to test the exceptions, 236 00:32:02.730 --> 00:32:04.859 Bernd Oberknapp: That wouldn't be much work. 237 00:32:05.340 --> 00:32:10.539 Bernd Oberknapp: But if you also want to test the reports, that's much more difficult, that's, 238 00:32:11.280 --> 00:32:19.039 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, I think maybe you could use the sales mock server for that, but I will have to talk to my colleague. 239 00:32:22.020 --> 00:32:30.360 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, thank you, and do you, can you write me a message via Slack, if you have more information? 240 00:32:31.870 --> 00:32:33.090 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, of course. 241 00:32:44.580 --> 00:32:50.329 Bernd Oberknapp: So, we… we have a… I've just looked this up. We have a counter-culte meeting in two weeks. 242 00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:58.109 Bernd Oberknapp: Where we talk about release 5.1.1. That's a feature release that's planned for the second half of the year. 243 00:32:58.400 --> 00:33:06.549 Bernd Oberknapp: And this includes some extensions that also need to be tested, so this would fit into that discussion probably. 244 00:33:12.830 --> 00:33:18.369 Bernd Oberknapp: By the way, that includes the extensions for the aggregators we've talked about. 245 00:33:18.370 --> 00:33:19.180 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, okay. 246 00:33:19.180 --> 00:33:21.009 Bernd Oberknapp: And, it's… 247 00:33:21.700 --> 00:33:28.880 Bernd Oberknapp: quite likely that it will look like what we have for our NASA platform at the moment, what you've… what you already know. 248 00:33:32.630 --> 00:33:39.740 Stefan Dombek: That means… That we can harvest via sushi from aggregators? 249 00:33:39.740 --> 00:33:51.480 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, that means that you would get a platform… a platform's endpoint from an… from… that's… that will be added as an extension to the counter API. 250 00:33:51.680 --> 00:34:00.829 Bernd Oberknapp: And you could ask that, endpoint, using your credentials, what platform… platforms are available. 251 00:34:01.060 --> 00:34:08.560 Bernd Oberknapp: And that's optional, of course, since 5.1.1 is a feature release, so it has to be Blackboard compatible. 252 00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:23.899 Bernd Oberknapp: But, it will… we have discussed the different options for implementing something like that. If you could… if we could use the existing endpoints, and the conclusion was that having a separate endpoint would make the most sense. 253 00:34:24.540 --> 00:34:36.640 Bernd Oberknapp: And it probably won't look like the answer from the registry, but would… that, I thought, think that would be the easiest one for you, because you already have implemented that. 254 00:34:36.730 --> 00:34:45.190 Bernd Oberknapp: But that's too complex, essentially, for just returning a list of platform IDs and platform names. 255 00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:48.990 Bernd Oberknapp: So, it most likely will look 256 00:34:49.110 --> 00:34:54.300 Bernd Oberknapp: like the one that you've used for testing so far from… from our Netsa platform. 257 00:34:57.670 --> 00:35:01.010 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, I think about our requirement. 258 00:35:02.500 --> 00:35:03.520 Stefan Dombek: And… 259 00:35:04.210 --> 00:35:12.240 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, you mentioned that you have a… something like a plugin or something like that for the, different… 260 00:35:12.670 --> 00:35:19.450 Bernd Oberknapp: providers, so if you have to deal with two different formats, that would be possible, if I remember correctly. 261 00:35:23.240 --> 00:35:34.540 Stefan Dombek: Maybe we can mix, the templates for providers with, T, do you, 262 00:35:35.090 --> 00:35:48.520 Stefan Dombek: The requirement for the, to, to, to get the data from the aggregators, so… Sue. 263 00:35:48.710 --> 00:35:53.849 Stefan Dombek: We can refride the requirement to mix these. 264 00:35:55.890 --> 00:36:11.379 Bernd Oberknapp: Well, yeah, the question of populating the usage data provider with an existing URL and things like that, that's one issue. The other issue is that you always have the same credentials for an aggregator. 265 00:36:11.780 --> 00:36:16.189 Bernd Oberknapp: So the idea was actually to have them… to just enter them once. 266 00:36:16.850 --> 00:36:25.540 Bernd Oberknapp: But I hope we can finalize this in the next weeks, so that you exactly know what you have to deal with. 267 00:36:27.040 --> 00:36:32.170 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, that we can also discuss this here in this group, in the next meetings. 268 00:36:32.490 --> 00:36:33.040 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah. 269 00:36:33.040 --> 00:36:41.609 Stefan Dombek: So, and then we can see if we can mix the requirements, or if we should keep it, separated. 270 00:36:43.240 --> 00:36:56.739 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, the idea… I'm not sure that everybody knows what we're talking about. We have some cases where you have multiple platforms on the same sushi-based URL, essentially. 271 00:36:56.820 --> 00:37:13.070 Bernd Oberknapp: And the idea is that you could ask that URL which platforms are available. For example, for Elsevier, you would get something like Science Direct and Scopos as information. Or, if you have an aggregator. 272 00:37:13.250 --> 00:37:32.279 Bernd Oberknapp: like our NASA platform, or Selos, or some other systems, or JUSP in the UK, you could ask them and get a list of what they have collected for you from different platforms, and you could easily get all the information into folding. 273 00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:33.310 Bernd Oberknapp: at once. 274 00:37:33.460 --> 00:37:35.489 Bernd Oberknapp: That's the basic idea. 275 00:37:36.090 --> 00:37:53.979 Bernd Oberknapp: So, for us, for example, we have, I think, about 150 platforms in our NetStat system that we have already collected, and we would like to get all of them into phone at once, and not configure 150 usage data providers and phone. 276 00:37:54.490 --> 00:38:00.599 Bernd Oberknapp: And that's the idea, to make that much easier, and to automate this as much as possible. 277 00:38:02.420 --> 00:38:04.430 Bernd Oberknapp: This is something we have discussed. 278 00:38:04.790 --> 00:38:06.179 Bernd Oberknapp: Quite some time ago. 279 00:38:08.780 --> 00:38:09.550 Stefan Dombek: Okay. 280 00:38:10.520 --> 00:38:14.300 Stefan Dombek: Then we should add this to the next, agenda. 281 00:38:14.500 --> 00:38:20.650 Stefan Dombek: So we can talk about more the details, and… . 282 00:38:21.410 --> 00:38:29.109 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, once the co-team has made the decision how to implement this, I will post the information, of course, in the Slack channel. 283 00:38:30.730 --> 00:38:31.510 Stefan Dombek: Great. 284 00:38:34.680 --> 00:38:39.539 Stefan Dombek: Okay, the next one is, 285 00:38:41.570 --> 00:38:47.879 Stefan Dombek: it's a draft, so it's just a proposal. And, 286 00:38:48.310 --> 00:38:56.039 Stefan Dombek: How we can, check, the… how was the configuration during, 287 00:38:56.790 --> 00:39:02.460 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, when you're editing or creating an usage data provider. 288 00:39:02.910 --> 00:39:09.600 Stefan Dombek: And the idea is, that you get an, button. 289 00:39:10.720 --> 00:39:24.419 Stefan Dombek: check credentials is, the idea. So, and… It's, between… The basic configurations, and, 290 00:39:25.220 --> 00:39:29.320 Stefan Dombek: like, service URL and credentials, and… 291 00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:39.369 Stefan Dombek: the report type sec- section. And when you click on this button, then a background process is starting, and 292 00:39:40.200 --> 00:39:47.950 Stefan Dombek: we are checking the credentials with this process, and… 293 00:39:48.340 --> 00:40:05.739 Stefan Dombek: We get also the information from the provider if the credentials are correct and the connection is established, which report types the provider offers, and then we can give you 294 00:40:06.620 --> 00:40:20.920 Stefan Dombek: only the report types in, the selection that the provider offers. So, and that's… it's a… it's not just that the credentials are, wrong. 295 00:40:21.290 --> 00:40:35.559 Stefan Dombek: It's also an issue that users select the wrong report types for a provider, and, so we can, combine these two issues with one feature. 296 00:40:36.010 --> 00:40:45.300 Stefan Dombek: So, and if the user clicks on, on this button, both, things will be checked, and then you, 297 00:40:45.570 --> 00:40:55.139 Stefan Dombek: Maybe, you can reduce your, errors in, the statistics, tables, and… 298 00:40:55.270 --> 00:41:12.779 Stefan Dombek: There are some cases, the first one is if the connection is possible. By the way, you can cancel the… this process, but there is also a timeout, 299 00:41:13.260 --> 00:41:24.680 Stefan Dombek: With 66 seconds, I think, and, but you can also cancel this, background process. So, but if all… 300 00:41:25.620 --> 00:41:30.399 Stefan Dombek: Good, and the connection is possible, then, 301 00:41:30.770 --> 00:41:44.990 Stefan Dombek: The system, knows which report types are available, and then you can only select, the report types that the provider offers. 302 00:41:46.160 --> 00:41:57.080 Stefan Dombek: If the connection is not possible, then there is a window that informs you what was going wrong, and 303 00:41:57.860 --> 00:42:05.540 Stefan Dombek: Then you have, to choice, did you… 304 00:42:05.990 --> 00:42:11.199 Stefan Dombek: Keep editing the records, so then you can, 305 00:42:11.450 --> 00:42:22.490 Stefan Dombek: yeah, correct your credentials, or you can click on this button, yes, if you would like to use the data that you entered. 306 00:42:22.590 --> 00:42:30.849 Stefan Dombek: So… maybe… There are some use cases for that, and if you say, okay, that's… 307 00:42:31.600 --> 00:42:38.530 Stefan Dombek: It's a good information for me, but I would like to use these informations that I entered. Then you can… 308 00:42:38.980 --> 00:42:42.200 Stefan Dombek: click on this button here. And… 309 00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:47.649 Stefan Dombek: It's also planned to have a section for the details, 310 00:42:48.470 --> 00:42:56.570 Stefan Dombek: where you get more information about the error message. Here's only an example text, it's, 311 00:42:56.970 --> 00:43:08.580 Stefan Dombek: We replace this text with a categorized, message, and, what we have to do here in this group is that we… 312 00:43:08.640 --> 00:43:24.400 Stefan Dombek: have to… to list all the categories that we need, for this information here. I think that's… that's a good point for the next meetings, to identify the categories that can be… 313 00:43:24.660 --> 00:43:36.030 Stefan Dombek: There, and, if a connection failed, and, what we would like to see here in the details, from the backend. 314 00:43:36.890 --> 00:43:48.989 Stefan Dombek: So that we have, standard-sized, messages for the users, and, everyone knows what is going on here. 315 00:43:49.470 --> 00:43:52.650 Stefan Dombek: And… Happened. 316 00:43:52.650 --> 00:43:56.240 Bernd Oberknapp: You have essentially the same errors as for harvesting. 317 00:43:56.590 --> 00:44:04.050 Bernd Oberknapp: Almost, at least. Report queue shouldn't occur, of course, but you can have a… 318 00:44:04.310 --> 00:44:09.810 Bernd Oberknapp: Connection failure, things like that, that are on the network level. 319 00:44:09.950 --> 00:44:14.739 Bernd Oberknapp: And you can have exceptions, like, service not available, service busy. 320 00:44:15.090 --> 00:44:19.510 Bernd Oberknapp: So I think it's essentially the same that can… 321 00:44:19.690 --> 00:44:23.949 Bernd Oberknapp: Occurred during harvesting, minus some… some of the 322 00:44:24.210 --> 00:44:29.510 Bernd Oberknapp: Exceptions that make no sense for the reports endpoint. 323 00:44:29.740 --> 00:44:42.859 Bernd Oberknapp: You don't check the credentials separate? You don't check the endpoint separately, if I understand correctly. You just check the report's endpoint, and 324 00:44:43.470 --> 00:44:47.210 Bernd Oberknapp: So, you could have a wrong base URL, 325 00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:51.180 Bernd Oberknapp: That doesn't work, where you get something like a 404 exception. 326 00:44:52.260 --> 00:44:56.610 Bernd Oberknapp: You could have the right one, wrong credentials, you could have… 327 00:44:57.610 --> 00:45:01.119 Bernd Oberknapp: Service busy, any, any exception that can occur. 328 00:45:01.290 --> 00:45:12.100 Bernd Oberknapp: P… most important point, I think, is that you have to allow… selecting other… 329 00:45:12.450 --> 00:45:15.159 Bernd Oberknapp: Reports than the one returned. 330 00:45:15.670 --> 00:45:19.630 Bernd Oberknapp: Because the report's response might be wrong. 331 00:45:21.160 --> 00:45:23.429 Stefan Dombek: That's… That's a tricky one. 332 00:45:24.460 --> 00:45:40.559 Stefan Dombek: This is the first step. If you check the connection, you cannot select a report type. It's grayed out, and that's the point I forgot to say. 333 00:45:40.630 --> 00:45:53.490 Stefan Dombek: the section of report types is grayed out, and you cannot select a report type. When you're creating an usage data provider, you have to click on this button, and 334 00:45:54.030 --> 00:46:00.460 Stefan Dombek: Then you get… only the report types that the provider offers. 335 00:46:00.870 --> 00:46:04.740 Stefan Dombek: And… But, but if, but if you, 336 00:46:05.180 --> 00:46:17.070 Stefan Dombek: say, I want to configure my, report types by myself, then, you can cancel the, 337 00:46:18.290 --> 00:46:24.400 Stefan Dombek: This process, and then you can select your own report types that you want. 338 00:46:25.160 --> 00:46:32.840 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, and that's… that's important, is actually if the reports endpoint isn't implemented properly, and that can happen. 339 00:46:33.300 --> 00:46:38.040 Bernd Oberknapp: Especially for usage data providers that are not content compliant. 340 00:46:38.310 --> 00:46:42.440 Bernd Oberknapp: It could happen for some of them who are counter-compliant. 341 00:46:42.610 --> 00:46:48.359 Bernd Oberknapp: But, of course it shouldn't, but, I've seen several 342 00:46:48.820 --> 00:46:53.990 Bernd Oberknapp: Usage data providers where you get the wrong response, essentially, from reports. 343 00:46:54.750 --> 00:47:02.259 Bernd Oberknapp: Okay, so if that works, if you can override that and create your own configuration, that's fine. 344 00:47:06.110 --> 00:47:15.070 Stefan Dombek: Okay, the next case is when the user cancels the process, that's what I mentioned, then, you get the message, okay. 345 00:47:15.690 --> 00:47:26.829 Stefan Dombek: the user canceled the process, and would you like to use the data that you entered? And then you have the same options, keep editing, and yes, and… 346 00:47:27.610 --> 00:47:31.650 Stefan Dombek: The next one, if you have a timeout, 347 00:47:31.990 --> 00:47:35.840 Stefan Dombek: We have also the options, keep editing, and yes, so… 348 00:47:40.310 --> 00:47:52.699 Stefan Dombek: No, we… that's… more interesting. If you added an usage data provider record, I see 3 cases. 349 00:47:52.970 --> 00:47:58.150 Stefan Dombek: The first one is if the harvester configuration has not been changed. 350 00:47:58.600 --> 00:48:09.179 Stefan Dombek: So… and… yeah, I have the questions to you, in this group, should we… add, 351 00:48:09.430 --> 00:48:19.740 Stefan Dombek: Or should we… check the credentials again? Or… Does it… doesn't make sense? 352 00:48:22.080 --> 00:48:22.960 Stefan Dombek: Hold on. 353 00:48:24.490 --> 00:48:25.000 Bernd Oberknapp: Whoa… 354 00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:25.889 Stefan Dombek: I entered. 355 00:48:25.890 --> 00:48:29.659 Bernd Oberknapp: If they worked, you don't have to check them again. 356 00:48:29.660 --> 00:48:30.649 Stefan Dombek: Yes, no? 357 00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:35.160 Stefan Dombek: I see two fields here. 358 00:48:35.420 --> 00:48:38.210 Stefan Dombek: Provider name and description. 359 00:48:46.890 --> 00:48:54.859 Stefan Dombek: The rest of the fields, are used for the credentials. 360 00:48:55.040 --> 00:49:03.540 Stefan Dombek: And… that's… I think that's only these two fields that not to be checked. 361 00:49:04.900 --> 00:49:09.609 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, everything regarding the credentials, the base URL, or the platform. 362 00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:25.150 Bernd Oberknapp: That's the basic data for the connection. That has to be checked. If any of those is changed, you should check that. If just the name or the description of the usage data provider is changed, you don't have to check it again. 363 00:49:25.470 --> 00:49:26.160 Stefan Dombek: Hmm. 364 00:49:27.140 --> 00:49:36.719 Bernd Oberknapp: Well, the question I think we've discussed last time is, what happens when the harvesting failed because of wrong credentials? 365 00:49:37.430 --> 00:49:38.130 Stefan Dombek: Yeah. 366 00:49:38.130 --> 00:49:45.070 Bernd Oberknapp: Then you should check again, if you can handle that case, if you know that this has happened. 367 00:49:45.530 --> 00:49:49.739 Bernd Oberknapp: So, if somebody edits the user's data provider. 368 00:49:51.010 --> 00:49:51.245 Stefan Dombek: Mmm. 369 00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:59.169 Bernd Oberknapp: Because you already know that the credentials don't work, so something has to be changed to get this usage data provider working again. 370 00:49:59.800 --> 00:50:11.480 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, there is, an Epic, ticket in Jira, and one ticket from this Epic is, 371 00:50:12.580 --> 00:50:19.590 Stefan Dombek: The one that we discussed now… discussing now, and the other one is, 372 00:50:21.040 --> 00:50:25.470 Stefan Dombek: Or incorrect login credentials during the harvesting process. 373 00:50:25.870 --> 00:50:32.009 Stefan Dombek: And, view… Would like to start with, 374 00:50:32.240 --> 00:50:36.770 Stefan Dombek: When you're creating or editing an usage data provider? 375 00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:46.190 Stefan Dombek: And after that, we would like to implement, this one here, where the harvester, 376 00:50:46.670 --> 00:50:52.849 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, checking the credentials during, the harvesting process. 377 00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:59.570 Stefan Dombek: So step by step, and, and… 378 00:50:59.990 --> 00:51:08.340 Stefan Dombek: What we discussed today is, only when you're creating and editing a usage data provider record. 379 00:51:15.420 --> 00:51:24.400 Bernd Oberknapp: I noticed one thing in that, ticket, you have listed the… 3,000 and 3,010 exceptions. 380 00:51:25.260 --> 00:51:32.349 Bernd Oberknapp: You also have to deal with, the 404 HTTP code. 381 00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:40.169 Bernd Oberknapp: Because for newer versions, you don't get a 3000 exception, you get just a 404. 382 00:51:40.550 --> 00:51:41.250 Stefan Dombek: Okay. 383 00:51:49.430 --> 00:51:56.189 Stefan Dombek: And, second case, 384 00:51:59.600 --> 00:52:13.719 Stefan Dombek: I'm not sure. With Trillium, or with Sunflower, we add a new, status for usage data providers. I think it was for Sunflower. No, for Trillium, for Trillium. 385 00:52:13.750 --> 00:52:22.120 Stefan Dombek: And you have the option to set a separate status for the usage data provider record itself, so… 386 00:52:22.250 --> 00:52:33.969 Stefan Dombek: Because, some institutions, only use, non-counter reports for a usage data provider, and, they're, 387 00:52:34.130 --> 00:52:45.729 Stefan Dombek: needed a filter for the providers that are active or inactive for non-counter reports, and, so you have a new, 388 00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:59.160 Stefan Dombek: Status, and if you set this… this provider status to inactive, Den? Does… 389 00:52:59.420 --> 00:53:02.370 Stefan Dombek: The harvest status is also inactive. 390 00:53:02.980 --> 00:53:12.230 Stefan Dombek: And, you don't need a check, at this point, if the harvested status is inactive. 391 00:53:13.330 --> 00:53:14.440 Stefan Dombek: Zoom. 392 00:53:14.700 --> 00:53:26.099 Stefan Dombek: And… When you change something in the harvesting configuration, when you're editing a usage data record. 393 00:53:26.990 --> 00:53:35.260 Stefan Dombek: Then, we trigger this process when you save and click on the save and close button. 394 00:53:36.570 --> 00:53:48.880 Stefan Dombek: And here's the question, do you, prefer this way, or should we use the… 395 00:53:49.050 --> 00:53:51.419 Stefan Dombek: Check Credentials button again. 396 00:53:59.240 --> 00:54:07.190 Stefan Dombek: That's the first question, and, I see… Should it… 397 00:54:07.740 --> 00:54:11.569 Stefan Dombek: Clickable multiple times, so that, 398 00:54:11.700 --> 00:54:20.430 Stefan Dombek: Someone needs to check this twice and three times, and see if it works. And, 399 00:54:23.900 --> 00:54:35.009 Stefan Dombek: And… yeah… Should the report types also check again after you clicked on these buttons? 400 00:54:35.170 --> 00:54:39.050 Stefan Dombek: save and close, or check credentials button. 401 00:54:39.270 --> 00:54:50.789 Stefan Dombek: Because we can also check the report types, again, if all the selected report types are available. 402 00:55:02.890 --> 00:55:07.890 Bernd Oberknapp: So, depends on what has changed. 403 00:55:08.340 --> 00:55:09.420 Bernd Oberknapp: I think. 404 00:55:10.860 --> 00:55:13.470 Bernd Oberknapp: If I change the credentials? 405 00:55:14.990 --> 00:55:21.630 Bernd Oberknapp: then it would make sense to have the check credential, or click the check credentials button again. 406 00:55:23.380 --> 00:55:37.770 Bernd Oberknapp: If I just change the harvesting configuration, the reports that should be harvested, I think it would be sufficient to check those again and tell the user if something 407 00:55:37.890 --> 00:55:44.039 Bernd Oberknapp: Doesn't match with what the… according to the usage data provider is available. 408 00:55:44.830 --> 00:55:49.920 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, what I… I think I would… 409 00:55:51.180 --> 00:55:56.079 Bernd Oberknapp: Prefer to, to have, to, to, have these two separate 410 00:55:56.500 --> 00:56:00.100 Bernd Oberknapp: Things, because it's… it's what you do when you add a new one. 411 00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:10.819 Bernd Oberknapp: So you're… you also… if you… once you have added the basic data, you can check the credentials, and then you can configure the… 412 00:56:11.540 --> 00:56:13.240 Bernd Oberknapp: reports. 413 00:56:15.550 --> 00:56:17.090 Stefan Dombek: Okay, yep. 414 00:56:17.090 --> 00:56:22.779 Bernd Oberknapp: So, I think it would make sense to do the same and only do that 415 00:56:23.080 --> 00:56:26.469 Bernd Oberknapp: If actually something… something changed. 416 00:56:26.820 --> 00:56:34.820 Bernd Oberknapp: The check credentials button, if you actively have to click that, it would make sense to always offer it. 417 00:56:36.190 --> 00:56:46.450 Bernd Oberknapp: But to automatically check that, I would only do that if you know that the credentials have changed, or are new, or you know they weren't working. 418 00:56:47.180 --> 00:56:50.299 Bernd Oberknapp: Then it would make sense to do an automatic test. 419 00:56:50.650 --> 00:56:51.330 Stefan Dombek: Hmm. 420 00:56:52.060 --> 00:56:56.220 Bernd Oberknapp: But the question is whether you have to do that? 421 00:56:56.480 --> 00:56:58.850 Bernd Oberknapp: To get the current repot list. 422 00:56:59.290 --> 00:57:01.590 Bernd Oberknapp: To check, actually, the reports. 423 00:57:04.170 --> 00:57:14.210 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, that's the idea, that when you're editing a record, that, will be… that it will be, checked again. 424 00:57:23.980 --> 00:57:34.500 Stefan Dombek: So, but we have two options. We can check this, via the save and close button, and… or we can check this with… 425 00:57:34.640 --> 00:57:36.789 Stefan Dombek: Check credentials button. 426 00:57:38.370 --> 00:57:40.200 Stefan Dombek: So. 427 00:57:40.460 --> 00:57:41.420 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah. 428 00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:47.470 Bernd Oberknapp: I think it would be easier to do that when the save and close button is clicked. 429 00:57:48.650 --> 00:57:54.909 Stefan Dombek: And then we can create out the check credentials button so that it's clear. 430 00:57:54.910 --> 00:57:55.230 Bernd Oberknapp: above. 431 00:57:55.230 --> 00:57:56.990 Stefan Dombek: I have to click. 432 00:57:56.990 --> 00:58:03.089 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, well, you could make it available, but you shouldn't make it, 433 00:58:04.230 --> 00:58:08.180 Bernd Oberknapp: Mandatory for editing the part below. 434 00:58:08.450 --> 00:58:09.180 Stefan Dombek: Hmm. 435 00:58:09.540 --> 00:58:15.109 Bernd Oberknapp: So that the user could check the… This and, 436 00:58:15.530 --> 00:58:20.719 Bernd Oberknapp: Then the information about the available reports would already be there. 437 00:58:22.930 --> 00:58:34.719 Bernd Oberknapp: But from… if I just added a report, a usage data provider, I would find it easier to simply edit it, and then when I save and close it, to have that check. 438 00:58:37.430 --> 00:58:41.109 Stefan Dombek: And you can also, implement. 439 00:58:41.110 --> 00:58:41.520 Bernd Oberknapp: The… 440 00:58:41.520 --> 00:58:51.290 Stefan Dombek: A little icon that, informs you, that the check was, possible. 441 00:58:52.140 --> 00:58:54.200 Stefan Dombek: And, 442 00:58:54.570 --> 00:59:14.060 Stefan Dombek: So, I saw some users that clicked twice, three times on some buttons, so… and to get, the information that all is correct, and so if you need an icon, next to the button, we can also add an icon, 443 00:59:15.630 --> 00:59:21.619 Stefan Dombek: I'm not sure if it makes sense, or we add this icon after the implementation. 444 00:59:21.750 --> 00:59:22.719 Stefan Dombek: Yo, what? 445 00:59:22.730 --> 00:59:28.199 Bernd Oberknapp: Maybe it would make more sense to actually gray out the button once the check has been done. 446 00:59:28.200 --> 00:59:29.100 Stefan Dombek: Hmm. 447 00:59:29.100 --> 00:59:37.219 Bernd Oberknapp: So, that you get the information, the check was successful, you don't have to try again, and then you simply grab the button. 448 00:59:38.330 --> 00:59:41.429 Bernd Oberknapp: I'm not sure if you could do something like a mouse over. 449 00:59:41.610 --> 00:59:42.780 Bernd Oberknapp: Or, boy. 450 00:59:43.230 --> 00:59:48.310 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, that might not be… accessible, 451 00:59:48.490 --> 00:59:54.000 Bernd Oberknapp: But I think a combination of a button and an icon would be difficult. That's unusual. 452 00:59:55.360 --> 01:00:09.139 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, what we also can do is, when you click on this button, and then you get a message from the system that informs you if all is correct, or. 453 01:00:09.140 --> 01:00:09.510 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah. 454 01:00:09.510 --> 01:00:10.999 Stefan Dombek: Is something incorrect. 455 01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:20.929 Bernd Oberknapp: Or maybe something like a green checkmark or something like that, checks successful, that you can see in the page that doesn't go away, like the system messages. 456 01:00:23.260 --> 01:00:24.050 Stefan Dombek: Yeah. 457 01:00:24.220 --> 01:00:28.000 Bernd Oberknapp: But I haven't seen something like that… anywhere… 458 01:00:28.370 --> 01:00:35.260 Bernd Oberknapp: pelts and folio so far. I'm not… not sure that this is something that's usually done in that way. 459 01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:42.140 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, I can ask our UX experts. 460 01:00:42.140 --> 01:00:50.239 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, the problem that I see is actually, you may want to do that check to actually get the current report list. 461 01:00:52.250 --> 01:01:09.059 Bernd Oberknapp: before you continue editing the reports. That's the point. If you… if you… when you add a new usage data provider, that's the usual workflow. You check the credentials, and then you have the current list, and then you can edit… select something from that list. 462 01:01:10.040 --> 01:01:17.100 Bernd Oberknapp: So, if you edit this, and you want to edit the reports, you probably need the current list that can be 463 01:01:17.650 --> 01:01:19.080 Bernd Oberknapp: what's available. 464 01:01:19.320 --> 01:01:22.810 Bernd Oberknapp: And you may have to do that check before… 465 01:01:22.940 --> 01:01:30.559 Bernd Oberknapp: So that you actually have the card list for, for, populating the… the drop-downs. 466 01:01:30.560 --> 01:01:31.320 Stefan Dombek: Hmm. 467 01:01:31.320 --> 01:01:38.240 Bernd Oberknapp: And I'm not sure what the developer thinks about that, so this is probably something the developers have to look into. 468 01:01:39.960 --> 01:01:43.300 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, my idea was that, 469 01:01:43.430 --> 01:01:56.149 Stefan Dombek: We expand the background process at this point, and if one of the report types is not available, you get this information here in a window. 470 01:01:56.700 --> 01:01:59.899 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, but you… that's what you get when you… 471 01:02:00.070 --> 01:02:05.850 Bernd Oberknapp: Would you do the check while somebody's editing the reports? 472 01:02:07.130 --> 01:02:09.869 Stefan Dombek: After you click on… 473 01:02:09.870 --> 01:02:11.210 Bernd Oberknapp: When you're safe and close. 474 01:02:11.510 --> 01:02:16.560 Bernd Oberknapp: Okay, yeah, that's… Yeah, that… that makes sense. 475 01:02:17.140 --> 01:02:27.650 Bernd Oberknapp: Then you can accept the changes as you've done them, even if they are not compatible with what the usage shitter provider says. 476 01:02:31.090 --> 01:02:40.710 Stefan Dombek: But I have also to… Check, how well it works with different… time periods. 477 01:02:41.460 --> 01:02:51.930 Stefan Dombek: So… Some providers have a report type, only for, specific, time period. 478 01:02:52.440 --> 01:02:57.110 Stefan Dombek: And that's… that's, that's one of the problems here. 479 01:02:57.110 --> 01:03:07.229 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, but that's actually the default for counter-release 5.1. You always should get, with the reports, response, you always should get the time 480 01:03:07.360 --> 01:03:11.260 Bernd Oberknapp: The period for when the reports are available. 481 01:03:11.740 --> 01:03:16.809 Bernd Oberknapp: might differ by report, which is not something Portfolio can do at the moment. 482 01:03:17.090 --> 01:03:17.750 Stefan Dombek: Hmm. 483 01:03:18.140 --> 01:03:22.889 Bernd Oberknapp: But you always should get that information. 484 01:03:25.170 --> 01:03:30.229 Bernd Oberknapp: For 5.0, it's not the case. You just get the report list. 485 01:03:32.350 --> 01:03:37.089 Bernd Oberknapp: 4511, this has changed. Then you have the, 486 01:03:37.940 --> 01:03:42.230 Bernd Oberknapp: Yeah, the first and last month available in the response. 487 01:03:45.010 --> 01:03:51.030 Stefan Dombek: Okay, then I will check this. 488 01:03:51.550 --> 01:03:55.479 Stefan Dombek: Until the next meeting. And, 489 01:03:57.550 --> 01:04:04.349 Stefan Dombek: So, we are… oh, 3 times over… Yeah. So, 490 01:04:04.920 --> 01:04:12.120 Stefan Dombek: when we should meet again. I think, 491 01:04:12.830 --> 01:04:18.150 Stefan Dombek: We have Eastern Time, so… let's see… 492 01:04:18.150 --> 01:04:22.519 Bernd Oberknapp: 4 weeks from now would be March… well, April 27th. 493 01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:28.219 Stefan Dombek: April 27th. It's, it's a good time for all of you. 494 01:04:29.790 --> 01:04:41.049 Bernd Oberknapp: That's the last week of the month, I think, where no meeting should take place, but since we only have a meeting every four weeks, I think that would be okay, at least for me. 495 01:04:43.140 --> 01:04:43.770 Stefan Dombek: Okay. 496 01:04:47.020 --> 01:04:49.819 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, I see you, Tara. 497 01:04:50.450 --> 01:04:54.010 Stefan Dombek: I see the heads that, are always positive here. 498 01:04:54.260 --> 01:05:01.260 Stefan Dombek: And so, that's okay at the time for you. And, yeah. 499 01:05:01.420 --> 01:05:04.589 Stefan Dombek: If you have more questions, 500 01:05:04.890 --> 01:05:09.319 Stefan Dombek: then contact me via Slack, and, 501 01:05:10.230 --> 01:05:16.960 Stefan Dombek: Yeah, Ben, you've write me if you have more information, and yeah, then we see you in the next… 502 01:05:17.450 --> 01:05:19.179 Stefan Dombek: Meeting in 4 weeks. 503 01:05:19.740 --> 01:05:21.359 Stefan Dombek: Thank you, Paul. 504 01:05:23.400 --> 01:05:24.030 Erin Block: Thank you. 505 01:05:24.030 --> 01:05:24.960 Bernd Oberknapp: fire. 506 01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:25.680 Stefan Dombek: Fire.